Return of the MN/PE blues

Hello all-

It has been 17 weeks of me working MN/PE2... and I have made essentially zero progress in my ROM.

I began it at week 1 on 18 Feb, and was able to make reps (at the same/above ROM) every week until hitting 5x15 after 11 weeks. However as the ROM was the same, I've since then been repeating weeks 9-12 over and over in a micro cycle. However now on my 5th week of this micro cycle, I see that I'm still at the same place.

I understand the need for patience, etc... however over this long of a time period there should be SOMETHING, coorrect? If not, then it means I'm doing something wrong and need to change... but what do I do?

I have had no issues with any other exercises in F1 and HS1 during this same period. I have been steadily progressing at those. However on this one... no progression. My ROM in jefferson curls has increased alot over this period. I also have tried every extra stretching/mobility/supplemental exercise I can think of (hamstring stetches from Pavel, from Kit Laughlin's gymnastic pack, from Mobiltywod.com, standing pike, standing straddle pike, seated pike, seated straddle pike, etc...) but still no improvement in the exercise.

So... I've been spnning my wheels for months on this and need to do something different... but what?

Working flexibility was a good first step.  However I wonder if you are doing the stretches correctly.  From the pictures you posted it seems you lack much flexibility at the hinge of your legs and torso.  This indicates tight hamstrings.  For that the straddle pancake stretches are excellent.  However you must do the correct form.  In the picture you are hunched forward which is incorrect.  Your upper back should be kept as straight as possible and the bend should be at your hips only.  The key is to reach out in the pancake stretch with the goal of putting your chest and stomach on the ground not moving the head to the floor.  This is a common mistake that often keeps people from making good progress on the pancake stretch as they mostly work spine flexibility.

Ok so the second thing assuming you have increased the flexibility correctly is that you have to work on active flexibility in order to gain strength through this new ROM.  I have mentioned on other threads how to get more active flexibility and compression in the straddle.  Search for those.  The gist is to lift the heals and lower legs off the ground while you are leaned a bit forward.  This will probably produce massive cramping and is a good sign.

So go back to the tuck-ups and do the things I just mentioned in addition.  Try to post videos of your stretching and active flexibility exercises so we can see if anything is going wrong.

Also read this thread entirely.  There is a lot of good info in there. https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/10281-mnpe2-straddle-up-question/

Hi,

I'll be doing MN/PE2 next week, but I've tested the movement and like many I'll struggle with the ROM. I have already spent an addition 4 week cycle on MN/PE1 as I wasn't happy with the consistency of the movement, specially in compression but I think it's good now.

My pike flexibility isn't atrocious, as I can touch my heels of my hand in front of my feet in a standing pike, so I think my problem is tight/weak hip flexors.

My plan is the following. I do the F1 4 day split with H1 on the SL, MN, SLS days (and sometimes solely an H1 session on wednesdays).

Simply inserting "supplemental stretching" doesn't cut it for me so I need to have a well defined set of exercises. I think my weakness is primarily weak  and tight hip flexors as doing stuff like the assistance in http://www.drillsandskills.com/article/16, makes the top of my legs hurt. I don't want to add more stuff the SL, MN, SLS days because I already do H1 there so I'll simply add an exercise/iM pair on the FL,sPL,HBP,RC day, precisely between sPL and HBP.

The exercise pair would be something like seated straddle pulses (sit down, straddle, raise heels of the floor as high as possible with toe point and do small cirlces) using the 60r template paired with this stretch.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bWQGIm9raw for 30s (each side).

On the SL, MN, SLS day I'll do the workout as programmed, even knowing that my ROM in MNPE2 won't be great. I'm a big believer on simply doing the exercises in order to get better at it. I feel the jefferson curl is enough to address any other tightness I have at the moment.

Does this sound like a good idea ? I prefer to use the Foundation series structure as opposed to simply saying "oh I'll add more stuff at the end of the workout" as I prefer not having to think in the workout and knowing exactly what I have to do.

Dritar,

I like your idea and would be interested to see how you get on with it.

I also like your idea of an exercise pairing.

I am in a similar position with regards to additional training on top of F1/H1 (I have to be creative sometimes now to find opportunities to get just these fitted in), and am considering implementing your idea

My only thought would be that this is still an addition to F1 and so would be best added at the end to keep the integrity of the original program. I can understand why it is slotted between sPl and HBP, but I have personally solved the interference issue between these two exercises by adopting a split suggested by other members on a different thread (essentially, switching HBP with SL to give: FL/sPL/SL/RC on day one, and MN/HBP/SLS on day two)

Well, just did it first day. I'll try to stick with the 60r template, but man do the seated straddle pulses hurt even at 3x12r. My ROM isn't too great, so after doing them I might switch to a simple static hold with the 60s template. Foundation seems to work like that mostly anyway as in you first train a static hold and then add movement. Kit's stretch is awesome and I think it complements it well.

I'm also at a curious point, where I'm also doing FL/PE3 and just started sPL/PE3 which both also include a straddle aspect (man is sPL/PE3 iM so much harder than the previous iM or what ? ). 

I don't think it makes much difference putting it at the end of F1. I put it in the middle, because for me, after the Ground Rows and the Lat Stretch I just want to go shower and pour hot and cold water on my arms.

dritar said:

Well, just did it first day. I'll try to stick with the 60r template, but man do the seated straddle pulses hurt even at 3x12r. My ROM isn't too great, so after doing them I might switch to a simple static hold with the 60s template. Foundation seems to work like that mostly anyway as in you first train a static hold and then add movement. Kit's stretch is awesome and I think it complements it well.

 

 

I'm also at a curious point, where I'm also doing FL/PE3 and just started sPL/PE3 which both also include a straddle aspect (man is sPL/PE3 iM so much harder than the previous iM or what ? ). 

 

I don't think it makes much difference putting it at the end of F1. I put it in the middle, because for me, after the Ground Rows and the Lat Stretch I just want to go shower and pour hot and cold water on my arms.

my recommendation would be if it's -such- a weak link for you to keep it within your working capacity to work with perfect reps. start with the 10rep mastery template(once mastered, you are doing 50 reps of the exercise) then 15 rep mastery(75 reps per workout session), then 30 rep(150reps), if you're going to be following the mastery templates, start within a good working capacity

if you start doing the 60 rep mastery template, think about it, once mastered you'll be doing 300 reps of that exercise. it's good, yeah, but at your level, just start slow and steady with energy in the bank. your capacity will rise when your tissues get stimulated to the point where they're used to it. 

it's cool to lift 300 lbs. but it's even cooler when you can do 300lb lifts with a 5 rep mastery template B)

at week one, you start with 3 reps, but at the end, you're doing a workout where you're lifting it 25 times! (as an example, im not recommending anyone to do this)

To OP, Rather than repeating the week 9 microcycle over and over, have you considered repeating the week 1 microcycle?

My logic to this was, that I shouldn't progress from the first microcycle, unless I have mastered the move, not just attained the number of reps. Since I had poor compression, I had clearly not "mastered" the move, even though the number of reps did not seem to stress my abs.  As a result I am currently doing about 3 reps, but really focusing hard on compression at the top of the movement.  It burns my hip flexors and quads, but this is where my weakness is.  I am supplementing the exercise with a lot of the same pike stretching that you are. and I find that I am making gains.  working at 5 x 15 reps is for endurance, but you need the strength first, so keep working low reps with as much compression as you can physically muster.  Only when you have built up the strength to get the right range of motion, should you continue to progress for endurance.  Strength and flexibility are inextricably linked. 

Think about it, if you wanted a one arm pullup, would you build up to thrashing out 5 x 15 partial ROM pullups straight off the bat? or would you focus all of your strength on getting 1 full ROM first and then build your endurance from there?

Thanks everyone. Sorry for the delay in response.

I have taken Primate's advice and gone back to week 1. I have done tons more research into flexibility and mobility, and trying to figure out what exactly the issue is for me. Give me a few weeks to try out my new approach and I'll check back in to give a progress report.