Long Static Holds Rationale

Daniel Burnham said:

I would not attempt that long of time for strength holds that are not low intensity.

Well that was just an example, it could be any hold. Would you attempt to hold a 5 minute ( or more ) tucked hollow back hold?

I'm just generally intrigued as to what leads to these insane high volume things that we hear about. I know the focus must first be on getting our base level of strength up, so would conditionning simply be what follows after we're built up our strength? How do you even build up to to these high levels of volume?

I've always been a low volume, high intensity guy, but when I read about those high volume feats I can't help but be impressed and want to strive towards similar goals. Maybe I won't get to 167 HSPU ( I think that's what I remember reading in BtGB...)  but hell, even if I can "only" do 20 that's more than 90+% of people can accomplish.

Charm said:

Well.... we might not once we compared it to 5-10 minutes

 

Maybe this is beyond the scope of this discussion, but is (long-term) developing these basic holds to a significant length of time a productive secondary focus for the Foundation pursuer?

If you do 30 minute warm ups the way Coach's boys do them, with no rest, you end up getting a somewhat similar effect.

There's also a big difference between a 40 inch tall kid who weighs 50 lbs and a 5 foot 9 inch tall athlete who weighs 185 lbs. It would take the adult much longer to build these long holds, and in the end it really comes down to how much time you have to train and how good you are about approaching things from a winning perspective (very slow progression for the longer holds).

The reality is that most adults in the working world really DON'T have 4 hours of training time 5 days per week. They have jobs, commute time, kids, husbands or wives to spend time with, food to buy and cook, etc. Most people could make more time for fitness than they do, but there are practical limits to what any particular person can do and is willing to do. If my schedule forced me to choose between developing 10 minute plank, reverse plank holds  and AG walks or following F1-4, I'd choose Foundation.

However, if you happen to have 30 minutes for warm up AND 30-45 minutes for your Foundation work you can absolutely get the best of both worlds.

Joshua Naterman said:

If you do 30 minute warm ups the way Coach's boys do them, with no rest, you end up getting a somewhat similar effect.

 

 

 

Do you happen to have any details or links to other posts on these warm ups?

Joshua Naterman said:

If you do 30 minute warm ups the way Coach's boys do them, with no rest, you end up getting a somewhat similar effect.

 

There's also a big difference between a 40 inch tall kid who weighs 50 lbs and a 5 foot 9 inch tall athlete who weighs 185 lbs. It would take the adult much longer to build these long holds, and in the end it really comes down to how much time you have to train and how good you are about approaching things from a winning perspective (very slow progression for the longer holds).

 

The reality is that most adults in the working world really DON'T have 4 hours of training time 5 days per week. They have jobs, commute time, kids, husbands or wives to spend time with, food to buy and cook, etc. Most people could make more time for fitness than they do, but there are practical limits to what any particular person can do and is willing to do. If my schedule forced me to choose between developing 10 minute plank, reverse plank holds  and AG walks or following F1-4, I'd choose Foundation.

 

However, if you happen to have 30 minutes for warm up AND 30-45 minutes for your Foundation work you can absolutely get the best of both worlds.

Interesting...

I've taken to performing a circuit of minute sets of the static holds from F1-2 as part of a general warmup (6x a week), and am feeling good about it-- hollow, arch, plank, side arch, chin, support, static SLS. I've done mastery sets on them multiple times, so it's not like its a strain. Given that I do have that time to spare, is it worth me working those holds up to more significant times as a side focus? You mentioned reverse planks too-- is this worth including?

Since I'm comfortable with the mastery standards (at least I think and certainly hope so) I am happy to exercise plenty of patience and edge them up over the long term. Any disclosable thoughts to save me some trial and error from the outset?

Last question, whereabouts (in terms of difficulty) would one draw the line for deliberately working for more (static) volume? Planks and hollows, okay; I can see there being definite benefit in literally milking every benefit from holds that aren't too taxing. But how about planche leans, top-of-HLL, even something like ridiculously slow negative dips ala HBPPE5 for 5x5x1minute rather than 10 seconds?

I know this probably touches on seminar material and some of it is also probably a bit ambitious to post and have everyone randomly try. I can't in good conscience have access to you guys (Coach, Joshua's, Daniel, Zach, etc) and *not* ask the questions.

Adding excessive eccentric motion is not a good idea, because it will severely impact your actual strength training. I definitely think that five sets of five reps of 60 seconds meets that bill.

I do a lot of locomotion, typically more bent arm one day and straight arm the next for variety (so a number of different crawls and walks in various directions one day, and then AG walks and so on the next) and series of various planks one day and various compression lifts the next. I won't get more specific than that.

Zach Armijo said:

That's part of the seminar fun.

Ah... "fun"... is that the word I'm looking for when I talk about 30 minutes with no rest?

In some seriousness though, it really is fun And, surprisingly, it doesn't seem to have any negative impact at all on my actual work. The key is keeping things low level enough, and that tends to mean something different in year one than it does in year three, if you know what I mean.

It is my opinion that you should go out of your way to include your least favorite exercises until they become your favorite.  

It takes quite a lot to tire me out these days but I still wouldn't put things like AG walks in your warmup. At least not until they are very easy for you.  Don't overthink this. Literally warm your body up and reinforce movement patterns.  Warmups for advanced gymnasts take so long because there are a ton of movements to reinforce.

As for the very long holds.  I still don't like them in warmup.  Generally I do these only if I am having a problem with some skill.  For example if I were to start dropping my hip on the Pommel horse I would go back and do planks until I didn't drop my hips. 

Daniel Burnham said:

It is my opinion that you should go out of your way to include your least favorite exercises until they become your favorite.  

 

 

100 times, this. Your least favorite exercises are often your weakest. Developing where you are weakest is the key to consistent progression. 

Thanks guys. Food for thought there.

I'll try not to overthink it and feel out what works for me

DAMN I want to go to one of these seminars...some day...

Joshua Slocum said:

100 times, this. Your least favorite exercises are often your weakest. Developing where you are weakest is the key to consistent progression. 

This is why I do circle walks and AG walks all the time now in my warm up... and, to reinforce what Daniel said about not overdoing it in warm up, I want to point out that I still only do about 40-50 feet prone and maybe 20-30 feet supine for the AG walks, for a single set forward and backwards (same distance each direction). There's no way I can handle multiple sets of that yet, but Daniel can handle 5 no problem now.

Just keep on plugging away at basic movements and you'll be surprised at what starts to feel easy... eventually!