Spinelli's nutrition log and random questions thread

[Joseff Lea]

I've never really focused at all on nutrition, I've always just eaten when I was hungry and then not eaten when I wasn't. However I see a good number of trainees on these boards go on about how importnat nutrition is and how it can really accelerate results and such, so I've decided to get in on  that and see make some sort fo record of how I'm going here.

My plan for my diet is simple I will try and consume the vast majority of my food in vegetable form, that's it. I'm not going to cut anything that I normally eat out of my diet (appart from alcohol, I've cut down on going out at the weekend and I have to say my week to week recovery has improved dramaticaly and my anaerobic capacity is coming forward also).
The way I'm planning on achieving this is by during the day only consume a vegitarian style diet, with the possible addition of fish. For evening meals I will allow myself anythign and everything that I would normally consume.

Does this seem like a sensible stratergy?

I can see the major problem with this stratergy will be that I don't consume enough calories during the day and that I binge on other stuff during the evening for example today (it is an hour after lunch) I've eaten a massive bowl of lettuice, cucumber, sprouted beans, rocket, tomatoes, radishes, a banana, an apple, some spring onions, a carrot and some humous and I'm feeling hungry so any suggestions as to calorie dense veggie food would be much appreciated
 

[Rikke Olsen]

Can ask I why you want to do it with only veggies?

 

Yes, you will lack calories. You also won't cover your macronutrient requirements.

Have you read Joshua Naterman's posts? They're not hard to find, and will give you all the information you need.

 

At every meal, get starches and a bunch of veggies ALONG protein and a bit of fat.

An all-lettuce diet will not serve you much progress on... well, anything. Get some more food!

[Joseff Lea]

Because It's been recommrnded by several people on this board to eat about 80% of food from vegetables.

Prehaps I'm being too literal about this advice though. I have read numerous posts by Joshua Naterman and I thought I was following his recomendations :/

My idea is as follows. For breakfast and lunch I have very good control over what I eat and it is therefore easy enough for me to be strict in my diet. For my evening meal it is not so easy and I have very little control (unusual circumstances I know). So if I eat a mostly vegetable diet, supplemented by eggs, cheese, legumes and fish during the day then my evening meal can be less strict.

Have I misunderstood some basic principle here? Any advice is much appreciated

Here is my food consumed for Monday 18th July.

2 slices of homade bread and butter

large salad consisting of lettuice, tomato, raddish, cucumber, carrot

half a tub of humous

2 apples

2 bananas

1 packet of crisps

1 kit kat

2 pints of beer

Falafel

Large ammount chicken tortilla with cheese

pot of yogurt

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

2 slices of homade bread and butter

---> Replace with buckwheat

 

2 bananas

---> replace with beans

 

1 packet of crisps

---> replace with spinach (one metric crapton)

1 kit kat

---> replace with kefir

2 pints of beer

---> replace with DI-hydrogene oxide

with cheese

---> replace with Tofu

 

[Joseff Lea]

Thanks for the suggestions Fred, one step at a time though. I'm going to get used to this current regime before I try and improve it any further. But I will slowly try and introduce those suggestions

 

 

 

2 pints of beer

---> replace with DI-hydrogene oxide

 

 

Are you sure about that Fred? Apparently that stuff is the main ingredient in toxic gases such as cyclone-B! I think I'll stick to beer for now

[Travis Widmann]

You've misunderstood what Naterman and others have said. The advice is to eat a bunch of vegetables, as well as a protein, a little fat, and a healthy starch such as rice, at every meal. That's the best thing you can start with. Josh certainly never said to follow a vegetarian diet until dinner. He espouses consistent protein consumption every 2-3 hours.

 

I don't know what your situation is. Are you saying you just lack self-control in the evening? If you decide to eat nothing but vegetables for most of the day and remain hungry all that time there's a good chance that at the end of the day your self-control will only be worse. You'll never feel sated eating only vegetables all day. It is a good idea to also eat "eggs, cheese, legumes, and fish" during the day, but why can't you do that for dinner too? And why cut out meat from the daylight hours? Are you a vampire?

[Joseff Lea]

You've misunderstood what Naterman and others have said. The advice is to eat a bunch of vegetables, as well as a protein, a little fat, and a healthy starch such as rice, at every meal. That's the best thing you can start with. Josh certainly never said to follow a vegetarian diet until dinner. He espouses consistent protein consumption every 2-3 hours.

 

Perhaps I've not been using appropriate terminology for what I'm doing, essentially the problem I run into is that if I don't eat consciously healthy during the day then I tend to eat something processed and far less than ideal and then this continues into the evening. Maybe I should have worded it the other way around, my intention is to supplement my current diet with lots of veggies during the day. 

 

 And why cut out meat from the daylight hours? Are you a vampire?

hehe No I find if I eat meat during the day it tends to be of the processed ham/bacon/sausages variety and I find these foods particularly filling which leaves no room for the veggies, so I feel like I need to concentrate more on eating the vegetables during the day. 

In the end this is a work in progress and it's something that I will continue to try and improve for a long time, so I'll make a conscious effort to include some fat and protein at meals also

Food consumed on Wednesday 19th of July:

Breakfast: 1 banana 

 

Lunch: 2 large sweet potatoes minus skin with spring onions, tomatoes and cheese

1 youghurt

 

Evening meal: 1 metric "craptonne" of roasted med veg, green salad, baked potato with cheese, beef burger, bowl of strawberries

 

Post evening meal: 1/2 pint of bitter, beef burger (just the meat) with cheese 

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

(...) 1 metric "craptonne" of roasted med veg, green salad (...) 

 

Well done! Getting there...

[Travis Widmann]

Ok, that seems more reasonable. Start with what you can, which seems like what you're doing, and improve slowly from there. Eating a bunch of veggies throughout the day is probably the best thing you can do. Next step: try and get a large handful of veggies at every meal, not just one or two of them.

 

What I've been doing is eating smaller meals more frequently. I find that by eating more frequently I'm not starving before my next meal, rather I'm just hungry enough to eat a smaller portion. It's when I'm terribly hungry that I eat the worst. This way also make it easier to eat a craptonne of plant matter; it adds up by the end of the day.

[Daniel Burnham]

Food consumed on Wednesday 19th of July:

Breakfast: 1 banana 

 

Lunch: 2 large sweet potatoes minus skin with spring onions, tomatoes and cheese

1 youghurt

 

Evening meal: 1 metric "craptonne" of roasted med veg, green salad, baked potato with cheese, beef burger, bowl of strawberries

 

Post evening meal: 1/2 pint of bitter, beef burger (just the meat) with cheese 

Breakfast and lunch could use some work.  For lunch you basically ate a lot of carbs and fat.  For breakfast you had sugar basically.  Try to make your meals more well rounded.  Josh doesn't recommend to eat just vegetables during the day.  You just need to get a lot in with the rest of your food.  I would rather see eggs and greens for breakfast and swap one of the potatoes at lunch for chicken or fish.  Personally I don't do too much dairy but thats just me.

[Marcos Mocine-McQueen]

Eating vegetarian during the day and more freely in the evening can be a great formula for weight loss and good health for the typical overweight, overfed sedentary American. It may not, however, be the right fit for a active person doing a serious exercise regimn. A more even distribution of your protein would probably help.

[Joseff Lea]

Ok so now I have total control over what I eat as I have moved house and am living in slightly different conditions. My diet is now a lot better, I get most of my carbs from either rice (white for the moment but will change to brown soon) and vegetables, mostly fresh but some frozen. My protein and fats mostly come from fish, eggs, butter or meat, and a little from cheese and yogurt. I do eat a little bread but not much and my beer consumption has dropped dramatically.
I am eating more frequently also, I do have the occasional chocolate bar but hey ho. I don't think I consume enough fruit at the moment though. Just a couple of questions that I would be very grateful if they could be answered.

Are there any negative aspects to storing food in plastic containers?

I recall from one post somebody saying that chemicals can leak into oils and such if kept in plastic is the same true of food?

Are there any negative effects of using a microwave?
Again I recall something being said about the heat distribution in a microwave being uneven and this could lead to problems, I would mostly use the microwave to reheat chilled food, does this apply?

I am looking into buying some Kefir grains, should I get milk or water grains? Can soy milk be fed to Milk Kefir?

I am looking for a good source of miso paste for making miso soup, any recommendations as to brands to buy/avoid?

 

 

I think that's all for now, cheers guys!

[Josh Schmitter]

Storing the food in plastic is fine, just reheating in said plastic is when possible leaching occurs. They do make BPA free plastic that is supposedly ok to reheat, but I would just use pyrex(glass) and avoid most of the problems. To me, BPA is probably just one of the 40 other chemicals that can leach and cause problems...they just haven't found them yet. 
 
As for kefir grains, I've been doing milk ones(raw milk) for a while with good results. I've never tried the water kefir, but definitely curious. Let me know if you do that. As for soy milk, I have heard mixed things...some say they did ok after some adjustment time, but even those said they didn't do very well long term. I forget why, but here is the master site on kefir. He's a little wacky, but the info is pretty extensive.
 
Lastly, we got rid of our microwave about 6 months ago when it crapped out. Just replaced it with a toaster/convection oven. It takes a little longer to reheat, but other than that, your gold. There's a post on here about microwaving, and I believe Slizzardman posted a study(...or wrote a study ) about it, but I can't find it for the life of me. Probably buried in some other thread. Anyways, there's a study Gymgreg posted you should be able to find with a quick search.

[Joseff Lea]

Cheers for the info guys, big help. Managed to make an absolutely awful fish stew/soup today but hey ho it's a learning curve, onwards and upwards!

[Josh Schmitter]

Sounds awesome. Bring it to the next seminar

[Joseff Lea]

Dear lord no! It's enough to upset anyone's stomach, I'm trying to come up with a way to save what's left but I really can't see a way, it's exceptionally foul... Must be good for me though if it tastes that bad!

 

Edit:  Ordered myself some kefir grains and I'm making a trip into town tomorrow to find some pyrex food containers. Will report back with how the kefir does for me. 

[Joseff Lea]

So I got my kefir today and it appears to be ok however the smell to me is very much like a PVA glue smell. I did a look around on google and nowhere is it described as a PVA type smell. When I got it out of the bag it did also smelt of yeast but now that it's in milk it doesn't really. Granted it's only been there for a few hours but is it something I should be worried about? cheers

[Josh Schmitter]

Where did you get them? There are also 2 types...one type keeps reproducing indefinitely and the other is only good for a dozen batches or something. I believe those are usually called starter grains...though I might be wrong. Sometimes it takes a few times through to get the kefir good. It varies on ambient temperature, where it's stored, whether you like it thick or super yeasty, etc. They are alive and will give different results as they grow, seasons change, and the like.

 

I do think I know what smell your talking about, it is weird. If it smells like that at the end I usually just trash it and make another which turns out fine. If it smells super funky I would always err on trashing it, giving the grains a quick rinse in milk, room temp filtered water, or tap water...in that order of bestest first.  I usually trash it if it's super watery and yeasty, but that just me too...I imagine if you mixed it in a smoothie that would factor in less.

 

Also, it's usually about 1TBS of grains for 1 Cup milk and adjust from there.

[Joseff Lea]

Yeah it did just occur to me last night that I have bought this stuff and have no idea how it's produced or what have you. I got it from kefirshop.co.uk and it arrived live in a little pack with a bit of milk for transport, it says on the website that it should be the type that can be used indefinitely and grows etc. I was planning on throwing this batch as it does contain the milk it was transported in but it does appear to be working
However I think I've neglected to mix it properly, I'll take your advice and give it a wash then try again. I did give it a little taste and it wasn't great, hopefully better results tomorrow. 
Cheers again TANSTAAFL your help really is invaluable
 

[Josh Schmitter]

Not a problem. I'd definitely toss the milk it came in. The kind of milk you use also plays a role. I believe raw, full fat, grassfed is best, but get what ya can. Also forgot to mention, shaking it up/swirling it around every now and again helps it stay a little more consistent. Whatever your storing it in also needs to have airflow/lid on very lightly. I use mason jars and just set the lid on top.

[Joseff Lea]

The Kefir is starting to give me a good amount each day now, I use organic whole milk. It's taking me a little while to get used to the taste as it's a very sour flavour and I don't pass it through a sieve so the texture is again a bit weird. Enjoying taking care of it though, gives me something to do

 

Yesterday I had a huge craving for chocolate without knowing why, I ate a piece of dark chocolate to try and ease the craving but to no avail. Two chocolate bars later and it was gone, however I had eaten quite a bit of chocolate. What is going on here? 

To my mind it seems my body is telling me it "needs" something, but should I give in to the craving and give it chocolate (note that it was a very specific craving) or should I try to resist? I'm a few weeks into the diet recommended on these forums so I do expect a few lapses but I mostly just wanted to check that cravings of this sort are not indicative of a deficiency in my diet. 

 

Thanks again

[Josh Schmitter]

The Kefir is starting to give me a good amount each day now, I use organic whole milk. It's taking me a little while to get used to the taste as it's a very sour flavour and I don't pass it through a sieve so the texture is again a bit weird. Enjoying taking care of it though, gives me something to do

Ya, the kefir is a learn as you go thing. I've been getting some seriously smooth, almost milk shake texture lately with very little chunkage and almost no sourness. To be sure this won't last long, but it's awesome. Again, messing with environment as well as how much milk and how long it sits all changes the texture and sourness...so basically I'm saying to try and put in your pillow case.

Yesterday I had a huge craving for chocolate without knowing why, I ate a piece of dark chocolate to try and ease the craving but to no avail. Two chocolate bars later and it was gone, however I had eaten quite a bit of chocolate. What is going on here? 

To my mind it seems my body is telling me it "needs" something, but should I give in to the craving and give it chocolate (note that it was a very specific craving) or should I try to resist? I'm a few weeks into the diet recommended on these forums so I do expect a few lapses but I mostly just wanted to check that cravings of this sort are not indicative of a deficiency in my diet. 

 

Thanks again

I am right with ya on chocolate, being right behind ice cream. I've had eating issues in the past such as eating past full and all the fun psychological stuff...feeling bad after going off diet, using food to satisfy anything other need than nutrient replenishment, etc. I haven't had ice cream in over a month and I don't really have any cravings anymore. I usually have a few dark chocolate squares a day...occasionally I'll have a whole bar, but I rock 88% dark so the calorie content is crazy low and it doesn't even remotely feel as a regular bar.

As far as cravings, those are normal on any regime that takes away something your body is used to. Listening to your body only works if your body is operating as close to perfect as possible. Adaptation takes time. I would take it for at least a month, then worry about listening to your body.

[Joseff Lea]

I've found the best way to deal with most if these cravings is to simply not buy the food in the first place, when I lived with my parents we always had crisps (potato chips) and so occasionally I would have a packet with a mid-day meal or as an evening snack even though I didn't really want them. Now I simply don't buy them and I don't crave them. However with this method I've found that if I do allow myself something that I get cravings for e.g biscuits in the house I will demolish an entire package within minutes. :/
Dark chocolate is the way to go, I prefer about the 70-80& percent mark, so good! I'll be sure not to listen too hard to my body then for another few months, although I'm sure I will occasionally

Next step is to start integrating Josh's recommendations for pre, during and post workout

 

I will be sure to play around with the kefir, the grains are growing much faster than I anticipated!

Another question: I have been doing quite a bit of SMR recently and have noticed some good results so far. Most of the knots are gone apart from the ones in my calves (which I haven't worked as hard as other areas) and some in my shoulder. Now my left shoulder has a history of injury and not functioning properly, it has got much better since starting foundation and much better since doing SMR, I've always been aware of the knots in that area and it was the first place I targeted. My right shoulder has always been fine, is much more flexible and I've never noticed knots in there, however once I started SMR I found a whole host of huge knots that have only got slightly better even after some very vigorous treatment. What's the protocol here, just continue working away and stretching and eventually it will go or is there a different approach I should use?

I understand this is a very vague question and that it's very hard to give advice for these kinds of things of the internet. 

[Josh Schmitter]

I've found the best way to deal with most if these cravings is to simply not buy the food in the first place, when I lived with my parents we always had crisps (potato chips) and so occasionally I would have a packet with a mid-day meal or as an evening snack even though I didn't really want them. Now I simply don't buy them and I don't crave them. However with this method I've found that if I do allow myself something that I get cravings for e.g biscuits in the house I will demolish an entire package within minutes.

Not having things in the house is pretty much the uncontested first rule in the SOP. Until you loose the cravings and gain the control, there seems to be no better way. I do however think it should be an end goal to be able to bring those foods back into the house and not have any inclination(physical or emotional) to eat said food. Of course, this could be well down the road...

 

I will be sure to play around with the kefir, the grains are growing much faster than I anticipated!

Perfect time to let others in on the joys of kefir .

 

Another question: I have been doing quite a bit of SMR recently and have noticed some good results so far. Most of the knots are gone apart from the ones in my calves (which I haven't worked as hard as other areas) and some in my shoulder. Now my left shoulder has a history of injury and not functioning properly, it has got much better since starting foundation and much better since doing SMR, I've always been aware of the knots in that area and it was the first place I targeted. My right shoulder has always been fine, is much more flexible and I've never noticed knots in there, however once I started SMR I found a whole host of huge knots that have only got slightly better even after some very vigorous treatment. What's the protocol here, just continue working away and stretching and eventually it will go or is there a different approach I should use?

I understand this is a very vague question and that it's very hard to give advice for these kinds of things of the internet.

It's funny, I have a similar issue with my mid and lower back. My left side has been sore for as long as I can remember...when I wake up it is always there, albeit sometimes almost gone, sometimes really bad. I imagine it's from my skateboarding/rollerblading days when I was an idiot and killing myself. Anyways, I noticed that my right side is so sensitive to SMR I believe due to inflammation(i.e. the injured muscle itself on the left) and the excessive massaging that's been done on the left side over the years.

As far as the protocol...it really does vary with every situation. Naterman talks highly of ART if you can find it in your area. Other than getting assessed by someone knowledgeable, it is possible it could work itself out with Foundation work(addressing any imbalances) and SMR.

[Joseff Lea]

The shoulder is slowly improving and at the moment I can't afford to see a specialist, so I'll continue working at it. I've had it assessed several times in the past, been told it's a postural problem with some slight sherman's disease although I wouldn't say that I have a unnatural curve to my back, possibly the dr was just throwing around terms it was when I was quite young and didn't involve an indepth examination. They did give me an xray to rule out scoliosis. I would like to get myself tested to see if I have even weight distribution on feet, hips being level, scapula moving properly etc etc but you know monies

I hope you find a way to manage your back issue, they really are a pain.

The plan with the Kefir is to get enough to freeze as a backup first and then I'll start giving it away to friends etc.  

 

I have to say after changing my diet I have so much more work capacity, I'm going to move up to 5 days a week from next week and if that goes well I shall try moving to 3 days of F7. It really is crazy how much better I recover, just have to remember to drink enough water