Hello everyone, I'm wondering if the foundation series would be the right program for my goals. I am a seasonal wildland firefighter with a background in running. I'm 32 6'2" 180 pounds. Every spring we are required to do a military style PT test that consists of push-ups in one minute, strict pull-ups to failure, set ups in one minute, and a 1.5 mile run test as fast as possible. We do this test immediately after a 3 mile pack test. The pack weighs 45 pounds. I usually excel at the run test and pack test. I have the running part figured out. I want to get better at my push-ups, pull-ups, and sit-ups, so in my six month off season I focus a lot on those movements. The typical workout for me would be 6 x 30 push-ups, 3x10 pull ups, 5x10 dips, 6x30 sit-ups MWF. I run on those days as well as Saturday. I do yoga 4-5 days a week. I have all the time in the world to rest and focus on training in my 6 month off season. I'm thinking about dumping my routine and doing Foundation 1 and headstand 1 and continuing my yoga and running routines. I have week shoulders and I want to improve my arm balances and do head stands and arm stands in yoga someday. What do you think? Can I still build the muscle endurance for my PT test each spring doing F1 and H1?
Is this training right for me?
Started by Bennywfire, June 2, 2013 · 18 Replies · 4,640 Views
I can't speak for practicing the F1 program intermittently as you seem to want to.
Presumably planche and front lever will improve your pushups and pullups respectively. I'm not sure about situps. I've been wondering this one myself. Would say, hanging leg raises improve situp ability?
Realistically speaking, it will make you much stronger, regardless of what they're testing for.
F1 could be a good way to start, H1 as well(to focus on correct trap recruitment and mobility in the glenohumeral joint, scapula and all that jazz.
my elbows feel a lot better, because I used to do this kind of training in kung fu but it was really rudementary and ineffective. idk how your training benefits you, but the level of lack of interest in my teachers in using proper exercise form to carry over to training(they're not really the "read more to better your kung fu" type. I am.)
if you work on Manna progressions, this will work the front of your core.
Side Lever progressions will work with your internal and external obliques.
and Side Lever Prep will focus on creating a very strong lower/middle/upper back.
as for upper body, it will be worked in a number of ways, not only will it involve bent arm strength(or strength in movement, the bent arm section focuses on hollowback press and rope climb) and straight arm strength( front lever, manna, straddle planche, side lever)
all of this lays the foundation or can be looked as "everything you have to have mastered before undergoing Iron Cross training" which is when muscle ups and all the other training(that i do not know about) enter.
as for leg strength, im not much of a runner but I have noticed that the times I do partake in sprints, my "dig" into the track has gotten a lot more stable and I'm able to take longer strides with better balance, but this isn't my focus, so im by no means qualified to give you any advice there. what I can report as my positive experience is that after starting F1, I can still Deadlift 225lbs and now with less effort.
I'm gonna be testing if i can lift 315lb. we'll see.
best of luck to you on this journey!
(as a note, i've sustained shoulder seperation and dislocations, knee hyperextension, pulled hamstrings, multiple concussions, hip deviation and am currently training safely with this system and my strength/mobility gains are going great for my level)
Foundation series and Handstand series is the right training for you
Your best training will be to follow F1-4 and H1 year-round, with a single set to failure of push ups, sit ups, and pull ups maybe twice per week AFTER THE END of your gymnastic workouts.
Then, when you get to about a month out from your PT test, if you are clearly going to be getting a perfect score then I wouldn't change a single thing. If you're close, but not quite there, THAT would be the time to consult the Foundation One forum for advice.
You may not believe this, but you will almost certainly do better by following the plan I just laid out than you will with much of any other training.
I, too, am a firefighter, though mostly urban with just a touch of speed gardening. I do choose to take the pack test every year just for the heck of it, so I'm familiar with most of what you're talking about.
I think F1/H1 would be a good combination for you for a number of reasons. I do believe it will help your performance on the push ups, pull ups and sit ups. F1, in particular, will help out tons.
There are some other benefits I think you'll enjoy...
1) I agree with JN's statement that you should do F1/H1 year round. It's a highly portable regime. There are a some exercises later in the series that require fixed equipment but most of the stuff, especially early in the program, require very little. You can continue this program through the (ever expanding) fire season. A pair of rings and some imagination will allow you to do most of your workouts even in camp. I know the season has some brutal days but there's also a ton of time spend sitting in staging, mobing and demobing ect. I can envision you switching from a 4/5 day a week program off-season to a 1-2 day a week program during the season. Sure, on occasion you'll be spiked out and will chose to skip it, but most weeks you'll have a day or two where you can get in a workout. This will at least serve as maintenance. If you're scratching line you'll need to push your calories and protein up as high as you can tolerate.
2) Increased shoulder mobility. At least at my department, shoulder injuries have now surpassed back injuries. It's one of the reasons I started gymnastics and specifically H1. My shoulders feel noticeably healthier and more mobile.
I'm not sure what you mean when you ask if you can still "build the muscle endurance"... Are you asking if you can continue your running while doing F1/H1? If that is your question the answer seems to be yes and many folks are doing other training while on F1/H1. I think that you'll find some endurance benefits from F1. I jumped into a 5k a month ago and while my time wasn't record breaking I finished just behind the elite runners (OK, not just behind, but there was no one else in the large gap between the elites and myself).
Thanks for the input. I'm going to give it an honest go. I'm going to get F1 and H1 this week and figure out how much I can do during my fire season. Work is pretty burly for me until October so I won't get very consistent workouts until then but I'm going to try.
When I said muscle endurance I mean pumping out as many push-ups pull-ups and sit-ups as I can in one set. I'm definitely going to get some rings to carry with me for the season. By the way, I like to think of myself as a power gardener.
Out of curiosity, what are the requirements to ace your test?
My crew does the PT test a little different then most crews so I am basically competing with my crew. As I said before we do a 3 mile pack test on flat ground with a 45 pound weight vest. We aren't allowed to run with the vest so a person can only do that in about 32 minutes walking. We immediately drop the weight vest and begin the 1.5 mile run. I am shooting for an 8:15 1.5 mile time. I'd say anything below 9 minutes is a quality time after the pack test. This is followed by another 1.5 mile run at our own pace. Basically a cool down run at a decent pace. We have two minutes to catch our breathe after the run and then begin the exercises. The best guys on the crew do around 100 push-ups in a minute (short arm dudes), that's a full lockout push-up. A partner holds their fist under the middle of he guys chest doing the push-up and they go down and have to touch the fist. The best guys are doing 25-30 pull-ups. Dead hang strict form pull-ups. No kipping and kicking. Sit ups around 60-70 in a minute. On a national level a perfect score would be 8:00 1.5 mile, 120 push-ups in 3 minutes without dropping out of the starting position. 25 pull-ups within three minutes without getting off the bar. 150 sit-ups in three minutes. That's a perfect score. On the national test you are allowed 7 minutes between exercises. We think our crew test is more difficult then the national firefighter fitness challenge. Not sure if this link will work but here is a link to the national fitness challenge. http://www.blm.gov/nifc/st/en/prog/fire/fireops/fitness_challenge.html
While hanging leg lifts and L work will work the core strength they still do not replace the specificity of situps. If you need to test situps, especially in high reps you have to practice them at some point.
Are you on a hand crew or engine crew? Based on your test I'll assume you're part of a shot or other hand crew.
I know that fire season is an *$& kicker but I believe that while there will be some missed weeks on occasion, you can continue training on a maintenance basis. You might want to look at the integration info in H1, particularly the stuff referred to in the forums as F7 (look through the H1 forums and you'll understand the code).
Honestly, I think that diet is going to prove more challenging than getting in a workout, which is why I asked what kind of crew you're on. You'll be burning through calories like a madman if you're scratching line. Add to that the fact that carrying additional calories means carrying additional weight and you've got yourself a challenge. If you're spiked out it's even tougher. It's not impossible to overcome, but you should be thinking about the eating as much as the training at this point. If you're on an engine there's much less challenge.
Either way, I'd start thinking about what kind of calories/protein you're going to use and when you're going to get them (stop by a grocery store on the way to the fire?) While I am a huge believer in whole foods (the matter, not the store), yours may be a situation in which it's not always possible. If you've spending time spiked out and working in the hot sun you'll have a hard time preparing/keeping fresh foods. You may need to consider some of the prepared foods/powders that people use to supplement (I'm thinking of whey, maybe a food bar with few additive). If you're generally headed back to the main camp and can keep an ice cooler you have a much better chance of keeping vegetables (firm veggies like carrots, raddish, jicama and daikon will keep for days with or without ice).
In the end I think that training continuity will be less of a challenge than keeping yourself fed. Ultimately, I think it's probably more important because if you can't keep yourself fed, you won't be able to train.
I'd also suggest that if you're on a busy hand crew or hotshot crew you needn't pay too much attention to the macros you're eating. Don't let folks get you too concerned about how many carbs or what kind of carbs you're eating. If you're scratching line or working as a sawyer in hot smoky conditions for long hours you're going to be burning though a ton of calories. Your dietary rules can be pretty simple:
1) Eat a lot. If you're working it will probably be impossible for you to eat too much.
2) Eat as many veggies and as much protein as you can get your hand on.
3) Drink tons of water.
Blairbob said:While hanging leg lifts and L work will work the core strength they still do not replace the specificity of situps. If you need to test situps, especially in high reps you have to practice them at some point.
I disagree.
I never did high rep situps, ever, in college gymnastics; yet immediately upon entering the military I was able to do 125+ situps in two minutes.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Coach Sommer said:I disagree.
I never did high rep situps, ever, in college gymnastics; yet immediately upon entering the military I was able to do 125+ situps in two minutes.
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
lol
Thanks for the replies. I'm at a fire right now in New Mexico. I'm a sawyer on a hand crew so I'm burning an enormous amount of calories. I have a host of supplements and food I take with me to keep up on nutrition. I appreciate the nutritional advice.
Didnt know coach was in the military
gravy said:lol
If Coach had to warm up with the kind of "pre-strength" work that his boys have to do, a sit up test would have been a joke to him.
When you get a taste of what a gymnast does for warm up, you really begin to look at the concepts of "strength" and "strength endurance" a bit differently than you used to...
Joshua Naterman said:If Coach had to warm up with the kind of "pre-strength" work that his boys have to do, a sit up test would have been a joke to him.
When you get a taste of what a gymnast does for warm up, you really begin to look at the concepts of "strength" and "strength endurance" a bit differently than you used to...
This. I just want you guys to know that most of the elements in foundation series are simply warmups and pre-strength. I am finally arriving at this realization after getting close to end of the foundation series strength levels. This stuff is literally just the foundation. Once you have it there is a greater world of Gymnastic Strength Training™ to explore. I couldn't understand this until I spent a long time in the program. Now things are starting to get put into perspective.
Daniel Burnham said:This. I just want you guys to know that most of the elements in foundation series are simply warmups and pre-strength. I am finally arriving at this realization after getting close to end of the foundation series strength levels. This stuff is literally just the foundation. Once you have it there is a greater world of Gymnastic Strength Training™ to explore. I couldn't understand this until I spent a long time in the program. Now things are starting to get put into perspective.
This is really comforting. Something I hated about figuring everything out for myself, it was difficult finding out what I could move on to next to get stronger. Knowing there's even more past foundation is cool : )