Rc/PE1 is really hard

Does anyone else find this to be true?

 

I'm on my second go through with these. My failure point is my arms, they seem to tire quickly (specifically the front of my elbow - btw forearm and upper arm) in trying to keep my butt off the floor throughout the movement.

 

By comparison, I tried RC/PE2 after I "completed" 5x15 at RC1 and I think I got 15 good reps easily.

 

Anyone running up against this? I'm wondering if I'm doing RC1 wrong.

 

Thanks.

Same to me my friend. But I still having doubts with the proper technique.

 

I read that we've to have butt off the floor, what about calves? I can have my calves on the ground and still have my butt off. I say so because if I tried just with ankles, the exercise it is so hard, but if I keep my calves on the ground it's just "hard".

 

I would like to help you more but I have the same doubts and to me it's just as hard.

Yes. I recently started doing it with heels on the ground only and the hinge really doesn't feel smooth at all. I'll be glad to get some assistance with these at the seminar!

I would really like some concrete definition of how this exercise is meant to be performed. The athlete really does seems to be resting on the floor with his glutes but that does change the difficulty considerably it seems. Without my glutes on the floor I also tend to slide towards my feet a lot and not on a slippery surface. There are a few cases where the photographs and videos don't quite match up with the focus points which would be nice to clarify.

 

TL;DR: This is one of the few examples it would be nice to see the definition clarified, preferably in the course itself. 

I do em by setting rings such that my backside barely brushes the ground when hanging underneath with straight arms and facing up, then scooting feet back towards rings so that the hinge made a 90 degree angle.

Now that I think about it, they really resemble front lever pulls with heavy assistance due to only lifting top half of my body. Hadn't thought of them that way before and may not be legit, but the movement in the shoulders is similar albeit much lighter.

Following that logic chain, fl pulls are sort of notorious for being difficult for people with a dearth of active flexibility in shoulders. Perhaps this is why people are finding em difficult; even though you may be good at pullups, there's no point getting strong and stiff then having to relearn the movement with better form and Rom. So the first hurdle is to rehab and loosen up with an assisted multi plane pull, giving you a much better platform to start re- stacking strength on top of.

Or maybe I think too much about this stuff just rest assured you are investing in your future progress by taking through time to work through it conscientiously now :-) don't get discouraged

Think of it as a version of PE2 where you're allowed to bend at the hips.

What Charm said felt pretty accurate in my case. You can easily have a strong bad form stiff pull-up and suck at these. So you have to restart and rehab. They work a bit like face-pulls in that manner...

Yep I'm finding PE1 a real investment, and it's going to be amazing when I master it. I think I'll find PE2&3 easier than PE1. Feel like I'm climbing the mountain and looking forward to (relatively) free-wheeling down the other side (PE2&3) when I get there.

Hari_Seldon said:

Think of it as a version of PE2 where you're allowed to bend at the hips.

This is what I do except I start my reverse plank position with my glutes just off the ground which is lower than shown in PE2.  It is tough to master PE1 doing it this way, but I believe I am overlapping into PE2 so much that I'll blow through mastering it that much quicker when I get there.

And what about my calves? 

That is the question

up to 4x9r, and it kills my forearm flexors by the last couple of sets. not sure why so weak in the forearms, when it's supposed to be a lat exercise >.<

Vinay Ramineni said:

up to 4x9r, and it kills my forearm flexors by the last couple of sets. not sure why so weak in the forearms, when it's supposed to be a lat exercise >.<

That was an issue for me as well. But after having set the rings a little bit higher - hands at forehead level at the upright postion of the torso - i suddently felt it much more in my lats and upper back in general. Of course it still fatigues my forearms but now i feel the sensation in my upper back as well Maybe just film yourself and compare it to the athlete`s demonstration once again.

I seem to have 'got' this element in the last week or so.

Having tried with just heels on the ground I wasn't making much progress... I continued to get rubbing and popping noises from my left shoulder which is my indicator that I'm not moving properly. I tried lowering the rings a little and now have my calves touching only. With calves on the ground this pattern feels right at last... it allows my legs to not move during the set and I felt like I was getting something out of this exercise at last. I even enjoyed it a bit! Like Joshua N said in another post... this is an awesome exercise

If the notes provided in F1 are followed to the letter then I think calves touching is fine Adriano. It'll be good to get some feedback from Coach weekend after next though.

Good stuff!

I notice these really pump up the back of my shoulders in short order. Front pulls are also noticeably more comfortable having spent time ingraining the movement, although that's probably from a dozen F elements

I've been really struggling with these also but I think I've finally made a breakthrough  
my butt is in contact with the floor but it is not bearing any weight. When my arms are extended my shoulder blades barely brush the floor, from there it's just a matter or moving the feet so that when I hinge I come up to 90^o 
I really feel these in my lats and in my elbow/forearms, especially if you squeeze the bar during the iM.
Now the only problem (which is the same with nearly all the PE1 exercises) is that I have a lousy anaerobic capacity but I expect another 4-8 weeks to sort that out
I'm very confident that PE2 will be much smoother sailing 
 

spinelli said:

Now the only problem (which is the same with nearly all the PE1 exercises) is that I have a lousy anaerobic capacity but I expect another 4-8 weeks to sort that out

I hear you! I'm in the last cycle for most PE1s and finding the jump from 9 to 15r/36 to 60s much more effort than going 3 to 9r/12 to 36s. Those last few reps/seconds bring up so much lactic that it feels like lava is running through my body. It's even got into my immune system, systemic acidosis and a bit of flu this week.

It's probably years of training just heavy iron under 5 reps.

But as I go my rest is getting less and form is getting better throughout the later reps and sets. I guess it's the stage of moving from can-do-it to true mastery.

Yeah these are way harder than I initially thought. I've almost got them mastered, need another week or 2. 

 

I find the lat stretch to be the most fatiguing aspect of this element though. 

Well after the first set of 15 hinge rows, I don't feel any fatigue in arms or lats. After the first set of stretches my lats feel targeted and starting to fatigue. It just feels like a great stretch/isometric contraction. Although, I probably do more of a im5 overgrip bent lean with single arm to get a better stretch.

 

I guess comparing it to hammy stretch it feels more like a weighted pike stretch/Jefferson curl than just touching toes.

Are the scapula supposed to be retracted for this exercise? I noticed yesterday that when I tried retracting the shoulder blades, I pulled more with my lats instead of my arms.

retraction during exercise is good to provide a certain level of scapula mobility and activation for future exercises that involve this section. more retraction and depression usually means to more back muscles activation.

So you start out with the scapula neutral and retract during the pull?

At the bottom of the row your scapula should be completely relaxed, retract it all the way back and keep it there during the rowing motion. Once you're back down again you protract your scapula until they are relaxed and then you repeat.

I think it's pretty much the same with pull-ups.

Charm said:

I do em by setting rings such that my backside barely brushes the ground when hanging underneath with straight arms and facing up, then scooting feet back towards rings so that the hinge made a 90 degree angle.

Now that I think about it, they really resemble front lever pulls with heavy assistance due to only lifting top half of my body. Hadn't thought of them that way before and may not be legit, but the movement in the shoulders is similar albeit much lighter.

Following that logic chain, fl pulls are sort of notorious for being difficult for people with a dearth of active flexibility in shoulders. Perhaps this is why people are finding em difficult; even though you may be good at pullups, there's no point getting strong and stiff then having to relearn the movement with better form and Rom. So the first hurdle is to rehab and loosen up with an assisted multi plane pull, giving you a much better platform to start re- stacking strength on top of.

Or maybe I think too much about this stuff just rest assured you are investing in your future progress by taking through time to work through it conscientiously now :-) don't get discouraged

 

These are, indeed, much like an "easier" FL pull. I also find that these are excellent preparation for muscle ups.

 

For me, heels on the ground with everything else just barely off the ground is my form. I also scoot back at the beginning so that I can get 90 degrees of hip flexion at the top of the movement. As others have mentioned, I try to squeeze my forearm flexors as well as my back muscles during this movement.

 

You definitely want to focus on scapular control, as others have noticed, and it is not much different from a pull up. Gohei described it pretty well. It still takes a little extra focus for me to make my right arm and lat work the way my left does.

 

This exercise, in particular, is a real opportunity to re-establish good communication with your muscles.

 

I've been working on this one for almost 6 months, and constant progress has been the result. I have everything but RC PE6 mastered, but I still spend virtually all my RC time on these hinge rows. I get 3 sets of 15, and two sets of 12. True mastery is not far off.

 

This exercise fatigues my forearms, a lot! Couple it with the iM, where I have to hold again and I barely have enough energy in my forearms to complete 4x12, albeit with really bad form as I'll be racing to complete the sets before my forearms give way... Guess I'll be doing a couple (dozen) of week 5-8 mini-cycles, with emphasis on form.