WP, FKP, WR, FTP Reps

I am doing the very first week of H1.  the cycles is 3x1r.  Am I really only supposed to do one rep?  That doesnt seem very worthwhile. 

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That seems too low to get a benefit?  

5x5 is no different than many other strength movements and is actually quite a lot of volume when you look at it cumulatively. These are motions that we don't normally train and are usually pretty weak in most people. Also, keep in mind you can test out of these just like any other movement if you can complete PE1 then move to PE2 and if that is too easy then on to PE3, etc..

- Chris

ok thanks, I cant test out of it.  In fact the FKP, my ROM is NOWHERE near 90*.  I am gonna be stuck here for a long time. 

Can you test out of any of the other ones? If you can, your time would be better spent on the more advanced versions of whichever ones you're able to test out of. 

Note that the programming intentionally starts off very light. The idea isn't to launch into maximum volume, but to build up gradually so that you and your body have time to learn the movement and get used to it. 

1 rep is where you belong right now. Over time, you will be able to do more.

Trust the program, and do what it calls for, and you will be ok. In this case, "ok" means strong.

If you are new to wrist training, then starting a new exercise or moving to a more advanced variation with increased leverage can feel like a bit of a 'leap of faith' when you first do it.

(I am thinking of wrist pushups here - always tricky for me!  )

If you start that set thinking 'I need to get x amount of reps', then you will be aiming for a number and your focus will be there.

A single rep means that you only have to concentrate on the movement - how does your wrist feel with that leverage as you control yourself through just one rep?

Wrists are important to pretty much every other thing you will do in H1 and F1, but they can also be a bit delicate if unconditioned.

Let the reps come when they will. Ideally you will be doing some form of these wrist exercises for as long as you practice handstands, so you are not rushing towards a goal but preparing yourself for the rest of your session.

I have one little question about FKP.

As my angle is no where near 90 degrees i was wondering should i continue doing 3x1 until i get it to 90? and i f so what would be the deload? (2x1?). Or should i push for more repetitions in order to give my hand more mobility/flexibility or whatever is the thing blocking me from achieving 90 degrees?

I would build up to 5 reps first, and then allow your ROM to get better over time. You may occasionally slip back to 2-4 reps as the ROM increases, but those missing reps will come back.

Joshua Naterman said:

I would build up to 5 reps first, and then allow your ROM to get better over time. You may occasionally slip back to 2-4 reps as the ROM increases, but those missing reps will come back.

Ok, Thanks.

Actually i was starting to think it might be the case, as the 3x1 is actually quite a small amount to get the hand more mobile, especially as the other wrist exercises seem to progress very easily.

I am very curious why 1 rep? I mean that almost seems not worthwhile. Why wouldnt i do 5 reps or more if the goal is conditioning? If i can only get to 45* then itll take me forever to get to 90*. Setiously do you guys only do 1 rep?

jwalker497 said:

I am very curious why 1 rep? I mean that almost seems not worthwhile. Why wouldnt i do 5 reps or more if the goal is conditioning? If i can only get to 45* then itll take me forever to get to 90*. Setiously do you guys only do 1 rep?

Exactly what i was asking . And it seems that it is better to work for more reps first

As Josh said above, build up the volume then worry about the ROM. By then you will have enough experience with the movement to be able to know if you should drop back when the ROM increases. If you overdo these you *will* know.

The schedule is laid out such that you start with a few sets of singles and build up from there. This minimizes the chances of injury to tissues that have likely never been trained. If you feel like you are able to start at week 5 or week 9 then do so. The volume is higher and you can focus on those cycles while building the ROM. 

- Chris

jwalker497 said:

I am very curious why 1 rep? I mean that almost seems not worthwhile. Why wouldnt i do 5 reps or more if the goal is conditioning? If i can only get to 45* then itll take me forever to get to 90*. Setiously do you guys only do 1 rep?

hukka said:

Exactly what i was asking . And it seems that it is better to work for more reps first

I think that what Josh was saying is that you should progress as normal, building up to 5x5. Once you get there, stay there for a while (deloading at 5x3 every 4 weeks) to build your ROM. You're both right that 3x1 isn't going to do a whole lot. If you've already got some wrist strength, you might start at 4x2 or 4x4 reps (i.e. week 5 or 9) instead. 

1 rep is usually used ad a max strength effort rep scheme. There is some debate if 1 rep is enough stimulation. To add tor the point, here we have a conditioning movement which shoul be higher rep scheme becuase its probably an untrained movemnt for most.

Look, Im im not trying to break anyones stones or be difficult, etc i am here to learn and understand, if it doesnt add up to me - i have to ask.

So whats the deal? Are there other exercises that we should also be doing more?

No disrespect intended - but I even question the 5 rep scheme for some of these preparation and conditioning moves in both F1/H1 and id like to know why thats the recommendation.

Hari_Seldon said:

I think that what Josh was saying is that you should progress as normal, building up to 5x5. Once you get there, stay there for a while (deloading at 5x3 every 4 weeks) to build your ROM. You're both right that 3x1 isn't going to do a whole lot. If you've already got some wrist strength, you might start at 4x2 or 4x4 reps (i.e. week 5 or 9) instead. 

Yep that's what i thought.

By the way, it has been said these should be easy so that's why i'm starting with the week1, otherwise i do think i might be able to perform most of these immediately 5x5 (and might even be able to perform clean mastery on others than this one)

Chobbs, thanks for the info. So are you saying that for this exercise and any other for that matter, if a person feels like they can afford more volume them they could begin on week 5 for exple instead of week 1? And if so how then do they follow the remaining cycle deload pattern?

These are strength based movements, not pure conditioning. It will be more noticeable at the later progressions. Once you have the ROM you may find you can test out of quite a few.

- Chris

jwalker497 said:

Chobbs, thanks for the info. So are you saying that for this exercise and any other for that matter, if a person feels like they can afford more volume them they could begin on week 5 for exple instead of week 1? And if so how then do they follow the remaining cycle deload pattern?

Yes you can start at week 1, week 5, or week 9 for any of the movements. The reason you start one those particular weeks is so you can keep everything in sync - the deload is designed to be across the board for all movements you are doing.

Just start where you feel would be a good point and follow the templates. If you overshoot, then just make the necessary adjustments (e.g. if you should be on week 10, and find it was too much, then you could drop back to week 6 instead ... there are other ways to deal with this too, that is just one option).

- Chris

jwalker497 said:

1 rep is usually used ad a max strength effort rep scheme. There is some debate if 1 rep is enough stimulation. To add tor the point, here we have a conditioning movement which shoul be higher rep scheme becuase its probably an untrained movemnt for most.

Look, Im im not trying to break anyones stones or be difficult, etc i am here to learn and understand, if it doesnt add up to me - i have to ask.

So whats the deal? Are there other exercises that we should also be doing more?

jwalker497 said:

No disrespect intended - but I even question the 5 rep scheme for some of these preparation and conditioning moves in both F1/H1 and id like to know why thats the recommendation.

The purpose of 1-rep sets is merely to get your body used to the movement. When you're struggling to learn a new movement, it's useful to do some very low-repetition sets to give your body time to adjust. For the PE exercises, this might not be necessary at all: if these pushups are so easy that you don't even feel them after 3x1, then you should be starting further along in the progression where there's more volume. However, once you progress to the SE's where you start handling large amounts of your bodyweight, those single-rep sets start to become much more important. 

Additionally, keep in mind that these movements are not solely about maximizing muscular strength. You're developing range of motion, too.  

Edit: the reason why these movements are capped at five reps is that once you're at the point where you can do 5x5 easily, you should be moving on to a harder progression anyways. 

jwalker497 said:

I am very curious why 1 rep? I mean that almost seems not worthwhile. Why wouldnt i do 5 reps or more if the goal is conditioning? If i can only get to 45* then itll take me forever to get to 90*. Setiously do you guys only do 1 rep?

Yes; seriously we do. 

You are struggling with this concept because you are thinking about it incorrectly.  You are comparing it to a version of a regular pushup instead of considering it in the same way you would a bench press which was very close to being your 1 rep max.  

Although I do not personally know the strength/mobility of your wrists, my experience with adult students over the years tells me that it is probably somewhere in the area of zero to very little.  As such it is prudent to err on the side of caution.  You will be doing more reps and more total volume soon enough.

Most of these questions (the how and the why) will answer themselves as you get deeper into the program.  For now, just follow the templates meticulously.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Ok thanks, i'll try to be patient.  

I do have to say that my HS seem to be better.  I mess around with them when I train legs and my hold times have been pretty good!  I don't know if its a cut back in volume that helped it or if its because of these wrist exercises but I'm pumped.  Also instead of falling out of the HS when I got too tired, I now am able to walk a little before I fall.   And the past 2 days I recovered from the walk which was a great feeling.