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Bursting capillaries in face around eyes/Nosebleeds

Started by The Giant, April 14, 2013 · 13 Replies · 299 Views

The Giant

So for the purposes of this course I will be beginning at the beginning (at least until I test myself otherwise).

 

However I am not totally new to handstands and work with them somewhat at my local acro school (either against a wall, or in a room where I can press my toes into the ceiling to make it a full body handstand isometric).

 

One thing that happens to me is that after practicing such I will have little bruises around my eyes and cheeks from bursting capillaries due to increased blood pressure.  Once I even gave myself a nose bleed.

 

Is this common?

 

According to wikipedia (yes I know not the best source by ANY stretch), handstanding for prolonged period can increase risk of stroke...I don't want to give myself an aneurism!!!!

 

For reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handstand

 

Hercules

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/page/index.html/_/gymnastics-blog/tip-for-decreasing-vascular-discomfort-while-in-r86

 

Decrease volume and build up slowly.

Never had any problems myself, but I'm young so I shouldn't expect to have problems.

 

The wikipedia source refers to this article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7633617.stm

It talks about a man staying inverted for 3 days - not a few minutes - several days! This is hardly relevant to handstands - but if you could hold a handstand that long, then that is pretty cool. But seriously - what risk is there?

The Giant

Yeah happend last night doing handstands for maybe 20 seconds? The capillaries around the eyes, not the nosebleed. Mind you I feel no discomfort.

Hercules

Well, you ARE a giant. I'd imagine there'd be quite a lot of pressure in your head when upside down. So the best thing you can probably try and do is cut bodyfat - which is what you are doing (read some of your other posts - you are big).

Give it time  :)

Alessandro Mainente

happened to me 3 years ago. nothing serious. the body adapts faster. 

Joshua Naterman

You may have unusually compliant blood vessels. This has never, ever happened to me or anyone I know, but such things happen. Sometimes it's just genetics.

 

You may want to get checked out, just to see, if the following advice doesn't help:

 

1) Start with week 1 day 1, on PE1/iM1. Go in sequence. If you go from the beginning, your body may have enough time to actually change your capillary structure to be less compliant. Crazy, I know.

 

2)Stop doing long handstands until you reach that point in H1

 

3) Stop holding your breath, if you are doing so. If you do not have COMPLETELY open shoulders you will be doing a LOT of work, and this may cause you to hold your breath.

 

4) If your shoulders are not 100% open yet, don't do handstands at all. Not only are you doing too much work, you are teaching yourself bad habits that are hard to unlearn.

 

5) If, by chance, you are consuming a lot of Omega 3 fatty acids on a very regular basis, cut back to ~ 2-3 servings of fish per week. Long term high levels of omega 3 intake can increase compliance of blood vessels to the point where aneurysms and hemorrhages are more likely. This is especially common in the Eskimo population that eats a very high fat diet (because whale blubber has TONS of omega 3's).

The Giant

My shoulders are totally open.  Flexibility has never really been hard for me...my shoulders can dislocate in fact, meaning I need to work extra hard on stability.  I wasn't holding my breath.  I think its just blood pressure from being so big.  Definitely cutting body fat is priority numero uno.

Joshua Naterman

What is "so big?"

 

I'm 6'1, 225, but I'm pretty lean and have fairly low blood pressure in general. What is your normal blood pressure, and what weight and body fat % are we talking about?

The Giant

6'7.25", 310 lbs. 32% body fat, "good" (well within normal) blood pressure (dontknow exact number).

Todd
<extracted from> Anatomy of Hatha Yoga by H. David Coulter -- chapter 8  The Headstand
 
"Turning upside down in the headstand reverses the figures seen standing in a straightforward fashion. Blood pressure will remain at 120/80 at the heart level, at least if you are not under too much stress, but the pressure in the arm will rise to about 140/100 mm Hg because the arm is alongside the head and below the heart instead of level with it. We can calculate that the blood pressure will only be about 40/0 mm Hg in the feet, with diastolic blood pressure dropping to zero, and with the systolic blood pressure of 40 mm Hg barely sufficing to perfuse the capillaries. Even then it's marginal, which is why your feet may "go to sleep" and get pins-and-needles sensations if your emain in the headstand for a long time."
 
"We can calculate that the blood pressure at the top of the head increases from 100/60 mm Hg in a standing position to 150/110 mm Hg in the headstand (fig. 8.2b), or even higher if you are not confident of the posture. The headstand is therefore contraindicated for anyone who has abnormally high blood pressure for the simplest of reasons: the posture can increase blood pressure in the brain to dangerous levels -- perhaps well above 150/110 mm Hg. Conservative medical opinion also recommends that you avoid the headstand even if high blood pressure is brought to a normal level with medication."
 
. . .
 
"What happens specifically when you turn upside down? In the first moments of the headstand blood pools in the capillary beds and veins in the region of the body superior to the heart -- in the head, neck, and shoulders -- where it is kept until arterial pressure forces it back around to the heart. And because there are no valves in the veins of this region, skeletal muscle contraction cannot assist its return. This is not very important if you stay in the headstand only 2-5 minutes, but if you want to extend your time in the posture it can become a problem. We'll come back to this issue toward the end of the chapter."

 

- - -

 

I found the whole chapter on headstand in this book to be quite interesting. It includes discussion of "crown" versus "bregma" handstands. The crown is the top of the head.  The bregma is located about an inch in front of the crown at the intersection of the coronal and parietal sutures. 

Joshua Naterman

You are, in fact, a giant.

 

 

Getting leaner will probably help. Until then, I would probably see about restricting your time upside down, and building up slowly. You'll want to use a clock and maybe increase 5s every 1-2 weeks at the most, so that your tissues have time to adapt (if they can).

The Giant

Re (If they can):

 

For years I have had this doubting thought in my mind: "What if everyone is right? What if I really AM too big and tall to be an acrobat?  What if there are absolute limits to the physics of the human body?"

 

I can't tell you how many years of my life I have lost to that nagging thought.  I only know that I am ready now and have the support systems in place enough to try...and that if I don't try I'll never know, and always regret it.

 

DEFINITELY time to get lean and mean.  Fun fact: I was obese growing up.  Lost 60 lbs in 4 months when I was 18 from teaching myself how to dance every day.  Even so...I have NEVER been super lean, never seen the definition in my abs or any other part of my body really.  I am voyaging into virgin territory for myself.

 

According to my Bod Pod test, I am at 32% body fat. RMR is 2600+ calories a day (just lying in bed wasting away as it were). "Sedentary" (like being a desk jockey who drives home and sits on the couch and watches the telly is 3400 calories a day.  Moderate activity is 4600, and intense activity is 5500 cal/day.

 

Now those are maintenance levels, and I need to be in a deficit.  I'm not quite up to the 5500/day level.  I'm guessing I'm around 4000.  So I set my intake at about 3000-3500/day.  Even so its hard to eat this much, especially when doing it Leangains style in 8 hours.  That's a LOT of food, especially when its done clean, which I am. I finally figured out I have to use oils and fats to get myself there.

 

My meals are:

 

 

-8 ounces organic chicken breast or grass fed ground beef, 1 cup baked yams, 2 cups broccoli or green beans, 2 tablespoons of mac-nut oil and an avocado

 

Salad: 6 ounces baby spinach, 8 ounces baked organic chicken breast, 1 cup peas, 1 avocado, and 6 tablespoons dressing made of 1 part almind butter to 2 parts mac-nut oil

 

-4 hard boiled eggs, 2 cups low fat cottage cheese, 3 tablespoons almond butter and an avocado

 

-occasional post-workout shake: 2 cups unsweetened almond milk, 1 whole carton (2 cups) of liquid egg whites, 6 tablespoons hemp protein powder (since whey has ben shown to be insulinogenic), and 2 tablespoons mac-nut oil.

 

Each of these meals comes out to being a little over 1000 calories, plus I have 8 ounces of coconut water after a workout, and an orange or two per day to stave off sugar-addiciton cravings.

 

I drink approx 150 ounces of water/day.

 

So yeah, that's the plan.  I am doing aggressive progressive cardio 30-60 minutes 5x/week, mixing it up between steady state, HIIT, and LT-Intervals, and I am getting my body comp retested every 2 weeks in the Bod Pod to see how my work is working...

 

Goal: 6 months from now to be down to 10% or lower from my current 32%.

 

 

Edit: I added some videos of me moving so you guys can kind of see where I'm going with it.  I'll repost them here for convenience:

 

 

If anyone is curious how I move, these are some vids of me practicing.  A couple years ago when I was 30 lbs. lighter (I got pretty fat last year).

 

 

 

Joshua Naterman

I think that a realistic 6 month goal is to be in the 15 to 18 percent range, and that's with extreme dedication.

 

I think your deficit is too large, quite honestly, but if you want a more detailed analysis you'll need to open a thread in Nutrition.

The Giant

Done.

 

New topic here.