SLS/PE2>iM Twisting Squat

First day today... Pfew! I am not able to do that one! I think I've found a weak spot...

I have to sit on a 6" (15cm) sandbag, in front of my stall bars, pull with one hand and push with the other to get started!

I have zero strength in that position; I am scared to push down while resting on the ankle sides; my tibia gets in the way of the other leg calf; the sides/top of my feet hurt when pressing on the floor.

That's for going up.

Going down is more like a free fall on my butt, hoping I don't miss the sandbag!

 

Knees are okay - Hips have no leverage to apply force - Ankles are really weak!

 

First step is going to stand up and sit down without assistance, then I'll lower my butt a little bit... This is going to take time.

 

Cues, tips, assistance exercises and advice appreciated.

I have a problem on this one as well due to a very bad ankle dislocation last year I am unable to put that much pressure on my left ankle, which is frustrating because before the dislocation I always used to stand up that way an it was cake and now I have mastered the pe2 but the I'm is going to take me half a year to get thanks to this dam ankle... I can't even start working on the move itself I had just started doing sole specific training for the ankle to even be able to start working this I'm. Sorry for the hijack with my rant...

ausswe said:

(...) Sorry for the hijack with my rant...

No need to be sorry, there is no hijack ausswe

What specific training & prep work are you doing for your ankles? I think I may need to do that too...

A cue that helps me perform these is trying to squeeze my thighs together. So rather than pressing your feet straight down into the ground, you press your right foot to the left and your left foot to the right. 

 

Doing this led to greater muscle activation in the thighs and makes the move significantly easier for me.  Hope it helps you also.

Thanks Tim, good cue

Tim Schmidt said:

... A cue that helps me perform these is trying to squeeze my thighs together. So rather than pressing your feet straight down into the ground, you press your right foot to the left and your left foot to the right ...

 

This is incorrect.  In fact it is exactly opposite of what you should be attempting.

 

The knees should pull as far apart as possible during the initial ascent to maintain pressure on the outside of the knee while simultaneously beginning to stand up on the outside edges of the ankles.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Somme

Okay, thank you Coach - I'll try that then.

I see, good to know.  I'll perform it this way from now on.

I have peroneal nerve palsy in my left leg due to a knee dislocation (tore ACL, PCL, LCL, meniscus, biceps femoris, + nerve injury). I've completely lost use of all the muscles it innervates, and as such cannot  activate my peroneals or tibialis anterior...(however I had a tendon transfer so I now can dorsiflex using my tib post). 

 

How much are you using the everters on this exercise? I'm not up to this exercise yet but from a quick go it seems impossible and I'm thinking it might be a bit of a slow process. The (L) knee (and ankle) feels under a lot of stress in the fraction of movement I attempted.

FredInChina said:

First day today... Pfew! I am not able to do that one! I think I've found a weak spot...

I have to sit on a 6" (15cm) sandbag, in front of my stall bars, pull with one hand and push with the other to get started!

I have zero strength in that position; I am scared to push down while resting on the ankle sides; my tibia gets in the way of the other leg calf; the sides/top of my feet hurt when pressing on the floor.

That's for going up.

Going down is more like a free fall on my butt, hoping I don't miss the sandbag!

 

Knees are okay - Hips have no leverage to apply force - Ankles are really weak!

 

First step is going to stand up and sit down without assistance, then I'll lower my butt a little bit... This is going to take time.

 

Cues, tips, assistance exercises and advice appreciated.

 

I have no problem envisioning how the cross legged squat should be done if it was just a matter of learning to activate the right muscles. In the good old days I used to get up this way to throw more wood on the camp fire; it is the preferred way of moving up when climbing cracks. However, that was then. Now it took me quite a bit of experimenting to find a way to get there with the limitations posed by old injuries. My left ankle is weak from having sprained it too many times and not allowing complete recovery. My right knee has a weakness where the fibula is held in its joint (at the knee). It pops out when under a side ways load at the knee especially when the supporting muscles are tired (or cold). So, I had already decided to skip that step in the SLS preparation. However, fortunately I decided to do a little more experimentation before doing that. First, of course, sitting from a higher platform (3â€). When that did not work, I tried to get up with my feet crossed at the ankles (still in cross legged position) so I could move more quickly onto my main load bearing leg using a flat foot (when you analyze the movement, you will find that -going up- you move from the side of your feet to on top of your feet somewhere half way up; so, I basically shorten the time spend on the side of my feet by moving on top of my feet earlier). Before I could get up this way, I had to spend some time just practicing how to rock from a cross legged seat (feet crossed at the ankles and pulled as close as possible to your glutes) onto my feet. I use some Feelmax shoes with very thin soles with sticky rubber, so I have maximum control while standing up and sitting down (but have a terrible time turning around while standing up). Having spent a week or so practicing this move, I found (to my surprise) that I could get up with my feet closer to my knees (in the cross legged position) requiring me to hold my weight on the side of my feet longer when coming up. Also, I can (occasionally) do the move starting from the ground. Sitting down, I have found that leaning way over helps me to control going down until I am close enough to gently sit down. So, there is hope, and I don’t have to skip this exercise. I hope, this will work for you as well. Good luck. [sorry, for the long post, but the devil is in the detail.......]

Hello Coach,

 

For Twisting Squats are there any cues that can help the transition of between the ascent and the descent of the movement ? I'm redoing a 4 week cycle with SLS2 to really get this movement down and while the ascent and descent feels nice and smooth the piroutte like transition on the balls of the feet really degrades into stumbling after a few reps, specially if the sole of the shoes drags a bit on the floor. It actually becomes the most tiring part of the movement for me.

 

Thanks in advance.

Art Vandelay said:

I have peroneal nerve palsy in my left leg due to a knee dislocation (tore ACL, PCL, LCL, meniscus, biceps femoris, + nerve injury). I've completely lost use of all the muscles it innervates, and as such cannot  activate my peroneals or tibialis anterior...(however I had a tendon transfer so I now can dorsiflex using my tib post). 

 

How much are you using the everters on this exercise? I'm not up to this exercise yet but from a quick go it seems impossible and I'm thinking it might be a bit of a slow process. The (L) knee (and ankle) feels under a lot of stress in the fraction of movement I attempted.

Quite a lot. You may need to skip this one.

Art Vandelay said:

I have peroneal nerve palsy in my left leg due to a knee dislocation (tore ACL, PCL, LCL, meniscus, biceps femoris, + nerve injury). I've completely lost use of all the muscles it innervates, and as such cannot  activate my peroneals or tibialis anterior...(however I had a tendon transfer so I now can dorsiflex using my tib post). 

 

How much are you using the everters on this exercise? I'm not up to this exercise yet but from a quick go it seems impossible and I'm thinking it might be a bit of a slow process. The (L) knee (and ankle) feels under a lot of stress in the fraction of movement I attempted.

When you get to this point send me a PM and we will discuss it further.

Coach Sommer said:

(...) The knees should pull as far apart as possible during the initial ascent to maintain pressure on the outside of the knee while simultaneously beginning to stand up on the outside edges of the ankles (...)

 

I tried that today, and together with a receding fear for my ankles, it felt a bit better. Still fugly, but able to stand & sit with only horizontal assistance from the stall bars, no more (or minimal) pulling upwards.

A little bit progress is progress...

 

I think my ankle mobility is part of the problem.

FredInChina said:

Knees are okay - Hips have no leverage to apply force - Ankles are really weak!

 

First step is going to stand up and sit down without assistance, then I'll lower my butt a little bit... This is going to take time.

 

Cues, tips, assistance exercises and advice appreciated.

 

 

I don't know how far you want to go experimenting. But you could wrap your ankles (going under your feet and across your ankles) with an ace bandage to give them more support. That would allow you to concentrate on how to activate your hip/leg muscles to get up and down. I have done that in the past (not for SLS iM2) with my left ankle and was surprised how much of a difference an ace bandage makes. Once you feel more comfortable getting up and down you can start without wrapping your ankles. Of course, you can also gradually reduce the support by loosening the bandage, using less wraps, etc.. 

I am with ya Fred!

 

I can push myself up 'easy' enough but then on the decent i am like...ummm WTF do i do! My first day today so ill just have to get this very awkward movement down. Really wish i know about it before as ankle stability was/is a big issue for me as a basketball player

Progress is progress is progress...

Two cycles and I am able to do these comfortably without assistance; I can now start to reduce the height.

I am going down 2 inches this week (4" instead of 6"), and maybe 3" if it works well.

I am havin progress as well! Can't remember if it was your thread here or another one on the forum but using a broomstick or other stick to assist gives a 'i actually have to balance and put weight on ankles' without the 'this is going to injury me' feeling. Still using the stick, but i can feel it getting right where in a couple weeks i am going to try it 'freestyle' ha aka unassisted.

 

Its a really good exercise! Feel more stable at the bottom of front squats for sure. An obvious necessity for proper one legged squats!

FredInChina said:

(...) going down 2 inches this week (4" instead of 6"), and maybe 3" if it works well.

 

Down 4 inches this week!

Due to renovating my home dojo/gym, I am training outside; I am doing these on the grass in the park and I thought I was flat on the ground, but to be sure, I tried at home and I still need the assistance of 1.5 or 2 inches of butt elevation. The grass is very slightly sloped, and that seems to help a little bit.

 

Getting there, getting there...

I've just started this too and am having the same difficulties so it's good to hear that it gets better. The soles of my feet, my ankles and my knees all hurt today. It's especially frustrating because I can actually do 5x15 of the PE (might need to check the form though). I think my legs are reasonably strong from cycling to work every day but this IM is now my new least favourite (it was formally Stiff Legged Windmills!).

I can now do mine from a step with a weight plate on it. My 7 year old daughter looked at me and said that exercise is easy. So she did it from the floor after two attempts. My 6 year old daughter also showed me how to do a deck squat slowly and effortlessly.

I obviously have 30 years of doing the wrong things to my body. Why did I waste my time with leg extension and leg curls!

Mark Collins said:

I can now do mine from a step with a weight plate on it. My 7 year old daughter looked at me and said that exercise is easy. So she did it from the floor after two attempts. My 6 year old daughter also showed me how to do a deck squat slowly and effortlessly.

I obviously have 30 years of doing the wrong things to my body. Why did I waste my time with leg extension and leg curls!

goes to show that success is not linear and belongs to those who work for it. keep going at it, Mark!

In looking at Ido Portal's 'movement', NatMov stuff, and of course GST it is crazy the things that come easy and natural to young kids no due to their strength but their lack of mobility issues and strength imbalances! The long road 'back' will be worth it and ya have people on this forum to walk with, ha!

Rather than make a new thread, I have a related question but partly non related

 

When doing the crossack squat, how far should the heels be off the ground? I can do it if I lift my heels high, but if I try to have my heels flat on the ground, I lean forward a lot and I struggle.

The goal is to keep heels as close to the ground as you can while using good form, preferably on the ground. I asked about this in another thread. The athlete in the video cannot keep his heels on the ground, but apparently ankle flexibility is something he's always working on. If you can't keep them on the ground then take it slowly and with precise control, since that kind of deep squat with heels in the air stresses the achilles quite a bit.