Elbow pain after 1 week. Need advice

Kokaka said:

Just got an ideá. The snow is melting away now in sweden so what I could do is focusing on some thriatlon training, alongside the gymnastics. Stick to the program as written and just Run, Swim and Bike as extra. No lifting what so ever.

Would that work?

There's no way to know beforehand. It might be ok. Or swimming + F1 might be too much for your shoulders. Or running + F1 might be too much for your knees. Or biking + H1 might be too much for your wrists. 

Foundation and Handstand are not a death sentence for your other training. But doing F1+H1 is already a very high volume of work. Have patience: you need to give yourself time to experience what F1+H1 alone is like before you can decide what is appropriate to add on top. If you start with just those and give yourself a large chunk of time (several months) to see how your body reacts once you get into the meat of the training, you will be in a position to make an informed decision about what sort of additional training you can tack on. Adding anything on top of that would be flirting with further injuries. 

Hari_Seldon said:

You need patience.

 

There's no way to know exactly what your body can handle without going out and trying different things. There are two ways to try to 'dial in' the optimal level of work: you can aim high, get injured, heal, aim a little lower, get injured again, heal again, ad infinatum until you find a level of work that is suitable for your body. This will satisfy your psychological need to push yourself to your limits, but it will result in slower overall progress and many weeks worth of down time while you recover from your injuries. Or you can lowball the volume/intensity to start, and gradually build it up. You may have to suffer through a few weeks or months of feeling like you're holding yourself back, but overall this path is much shorter and less likely to result in serious damage to your body. 

 

Foundation's exercises are not easy to do at the volume prescribed with correct form. If you follow the Foundation program to the letter, you will reach a point where it taxes your mind and body to the limit. But first you need to put in some time to find the right amount of work for you. 

Got it. So where should I start? I have masterd everything but the planche lean and very, very soon masterd the hollow body rock aswell.

Everything else I added extra weight to give me a challenge.

Sould I continue add weight to the exercises and do it as it is written or, should I do more advanced exercises instead. I do have BTGB book so it wouldn't be a problem looking up the next progression I belive. I don't have the book with me at the moment so I can't be shure.

chobbs said:

Further, there is no way you are working out at high intensity for those periods and truly recovering. You may be working well above what others are capable of doing, and you may be pummelling yourself mentally ... but you are either not working as intensely as you believe, or you aren't recovering like you think you are. Keep in mind intensity is a percentage of all out effort, not simply a reflection of your sweat puddle.

Did sealfit, changing in some kettlebell work in there . http://www.sealfit.com/hp/

What I usually did was something along these lines: Work up to 1 rep max on a compund lift, then 15 reps of 90% max of that lift, followed by 1-2 "crossfit inspired" workouts and/or sprints. Followed by some long slow running or 40-45min kettlebell lifting followed by some core training.

Resting in between the mini workouts as I did call them. Did that 5 days a week +1 day with active recovery, like running 4-6 miles, for 6 months and fealth great. Pushing myself every workout.

So it is a bit of a change switching over to GST, but I actually belive that I will get better gains from gymnastics.

chobbs said:

Kokaka said:

(...) would swimming or running be bad after F1 (...)

Have you tried eating and napping?

IMO your recovery probably wasn't as great as you believe. Being able to push back through the workouts doesn't necessarily indicate good recovery, but no doubt you have a built a tremendous work capacity with that type of training.

I really think that taking a few months off of all other intense activity to do a proper cycle of F1/H1 will be eye opening for you. Any extra activity you decide you must do I would keep at lower moderate intensity (4-6 on a scale of 1-10) and keep the volume within reason too.

As for what to do having mastered all of the F1 movements ... I don't really have an answer, but a question - does your form on all of the PE and iM movements match what is demonstrated? Perhaps post some vids for Coach and his assistants to critique. You might find places where there are weaknesses that you aren't even aware of having - working those will assure forward progress. Small details like feet together on the arch holds and other types of things have come up in threads which might give you some idea of how easy it is to think you are doing it right when you really have a long way to go.

Just some thoughts based on how often we encounter form nuances that need to be adjusted. The body does an amazing job compensating to complete the tasks assigned, thus giving us the illusion of mastery. You may in fact have them all nailed - but if it were me I would make sure.

- Chris

Kokaka said:

Got it. So where should I start? I have masterd everything but the planche lean and very, very soon masterd the hollow body rock aswell.

Everything else I added extra weight to give me a challenge.

 

Sould I continue add weight to the exercises and do it as it is written or, should I do more advanced exercises instead. I do have BTGB book so it wouldn't be a problem looking up the next progression I belive. I don't have the book with me at the moment so I can't be shure.

First double check that you're doing everything with good form at a reasonable tempo. It's worth recording yourself performing each exercise so that you can take an outside view. Often what feels 'correct' is quite far from where you're supposed to be! Did you master all of the iM work, too? Mastering the iM work is critical. 

If you've mastered all of the PE and iM work, then pat yourself on the back: you're ready for Foundation 2. Unfortunately Foundation 2 isn't out yet. If you're sure you've mastered all the PE and iM exercises, I would put Foundation 1 on maintenance and resume other training until Foundation 2 is released. 

FredInChina said:

Have you tried eating and napping?

Tried that once. Didn't like it.

Also, Osu!

Kokaka said:

Tried that once. Didn't like it.

 

Also, Osu!

Osu!

Don't worry, that will come soon enough!

Hari_Seldon said:

First double check that you're doing everything with good form at a reasonable tempo. It's worth recording yourself performing each exercise so that you can take an outside view. Often what feels 'correct' is quite far from where you're supposed to be! Did you master all of the iM work, too? Mastering the iM work is critical. 

 

If you've mastered all of the PE and iM work, then pat yourself on the back: you're ready for Foundation 2. Unfortunately Foundation 2 isn't out yet. If you're sure you've mastered all the PE and iM exercises, I would put Foundation 1 on maintenance and resume other training until Foundation 2 is released. 

Actually had a buddy of mine filming me after every set just to double check the technique. I have not masterd all of the iM yet. But I'm making good progress. Still can't get the Xiaopeng right.

chobbs said:

IMO your recovery probably wasn't as great as you believe. Being able to push back through the workouts doesn't necessarily indicate good recovery, but no doubt you have a built a tremendous work capacity with that type of training.

 

I really think that taking a few months off of all other intense activity to do a proper cycle of F1/H1 will be eye opening for you. Any extra activity you decide you must do I would keep at lower moderate intensity (4-6 on a scale of 1-10) and keep the volume within reason too.

Absolutly. Focusing on gymnastics for a few months will make me break through alot of plateus and give me tons of new strength, mobility and body controll. The aestetic physicue is just an added bonus. Some once said. "Looks is the biproduct of fitness"

chobbs said:

chobbs said:

As for what to do having mastered all of the F1 movements ... I don't really have an answer, but a question - does your form on all of the PE and iM movements match what is demonstrated? Perhaps post some vids for Coach and his assistants to critique. You might find places where there are weaknesses that you aren't even aware of having - working those will assure forward progress. Small details like feet together on the arch holds and other types of things have come up in threads which might give you some idea of how easy it is to think you are doing it right when you really have a long way to go.

Just feel a bit bummed. Having waited since 2009 for "The handstand chronicles" and "Liquid Steel™" which I guess have been substituted with F1 and H1, and finding it out to be to easy.

Maybe that is what I seek, a way to make it more challenging with different lifts. Maybe start doing front lever progresson on the rings soon and adding more wight, time under tension on the back and pull exercises, and doing more advanced dip variants untill F2 comes out. Keeping the straight arm stuff as it is because Im very, very weak in that area.

It sounds like you need to be spending your time on the mobility exercises. Coach's instructions are not to move forward on the PE movements until the iM is mastered well. There are many of us here frustrated as we have strength yet we are held back by our current mobility (or lack thereof) ... however, a good majority (myself included) have tried pushing forward in the past and experienced various injuries. Check the ego and follow the plan.

- Chris

chobbs said:

It sounds like you need to be spending your time on the mobility exercises. Coach's instructions are not to move forward on the PE movements until the iM is mastered well. There are many of us here frustrated as we have strength yet we are held back by our current mobility (or lack thereof) ... however, a good majority (myself included) have tried pushing forward in the past and experienced various injuries. Check the ego and follow the plan.

 

- Chris

Yeah but there we have a problem. I can do the PE stuff for days on the exercises I cant do the iM's with perfect form. Should I add weight to the PE movement so I can follow the cycle or add more time/reps because if not. I feel the only benefit I get from the program is some stretching

Kokaka said:

Yeah but there we have a problem. I can do the PE stuff for days on the exercises I cant do the iM's with perfect form. Should I add weight to the PE movement so I can follow the cycle or add more time/reps because if not. I feel the only benefit I get from the program is some stretching

Why do you have to feel like you killed yourself to believe you are getting in a productive workout? The problem is your mindset. At this point adding weight to the movements is doing nothing more than making your dysfunctional patterns more dysfunctional through further reenforcement. Also, if you don't have the iM's mastered then there is a very good chance you aren't able to hit the necessary ROM on subsequent PE movements. Since you had your friend video you already, I would go ahead and post it up and get some feedback.

- Chris

chobbs said:

Why do you have to feel like you killed yourself to believe you are getting in a productive workout? The problem is your mindset. At this point adding weight to the movements is doing nothing more than making your dysfunctional patterns more dysfunctional through further reenforcement. Also, if you don't have the iM's mastered then there is a very good chance you aren't able to hit the necessary ROM on subsequent PE movements. Since you had your friend video you already, I would go ahead and post it up and get some feedback.

 

- Chris

I defenetly understand what you are trying to say, however. If I can do 100+ reverse leg lift with good form and full range of motion. It just dosn't seem very productive to be doing 3 sets of 3 reps. That is the problem I have with almost every exercise. I feel I should have started on F2 for all but the planche progression. But as it isn't out yet and I've paid for F1. I have do do the best with what I got.

Good idéa on uploading the videos. Will do that when my elbows heal up since I deleted the videos after watching.

Kokaka said:

Good idéa on uploading the videos. Will do that when my elbows heal up since I deleted the videos after watching.

Maybe the elbow pain is an indication of your recovery ability in terms of GST and the necessary mobility elements.

The best advice and maybe more challenging then the exercises themselves is to check the ego and retrain ones mindset to truly progress and master through the progressions as Coach has presented them.

zbd124 said:

Maybe the elbow pain is an indication of your recovery ability in terms of GST and the necessary mobility elements.

 

The best advice and maybe more challenging then the exercises themselves is to check the ego and retrain ones mindset to truly progress and master through the progressions as Coach has presented them.

Yeah it is definitly an indication of lack of recovery ability from GST and lack ov mobility in the elbows, possibly even shoulders, wrists and upper back. Just came from being stupid for ramping up the program 300%

The thing is, I dont have a ego, even if it apears I have one. It is just that if the program calls out for 3x3 of RLL when I can do 100+ reps, and 3x3 dips when I can do 50+ reps. I just don't see the point, in doing every exercise as written when I'm capable of doing so much more than what the program calls for. Apart from the planche lean and hollow rock's.

Wouldn't it be better then to add intensity on the exercises I have masterd and incorporated in my normal workout routine for many years? Still keeping the "gymnastic" moves which are new to me as it is?

Kokaka said:

It is just that if the program calls out for 3x3 of RLL when I can do 100+ reps, and 3x3 dips when I can do 50+ reps. I just don't see the point, in doing every exercise as written when I'm capable of doing so much more than what the program calls for.

The point is that going on the evidence your elbows have presented you with, you are over-reaching your current capabilities.

My advice would be to listen to the other good advice given (quite a few times) and not your ego (despite your protestations). You don't want connective tissue/joint problems, as they take ages to heal and require a lot of rest and or treatment.

Worst case scenario is that you lose some fitness over the next few months ...which you can happily suffer through getting back later if needs be.

Take the red pill, stay in Wonderland and see how deep the rabbit-hole goes!

Kokaka said:

(...) I dont have a ego (...)

Eeeeewwww...... This will be interesting...

(grabbing a chair)

FredInChina said:

Eeeeewwww...... This will be interesting...

 

(grabbing a chair)

Well I migh have appeared to have been percieved the wrong way. I blame the language barrier since english is not my main language.

If the rules of the F1 are set in stone I will do the cycle with no change. Just add some running, and slowly introducing some biking and swimming. I have been injured from over training once a few years ago and don't want to be that again.

It is just that I'm used to the idea of every workout should be tailord to the trainee, his demands and abilities for best results and not just follow a "cockie cutter" program.

However, GST is new to me and I defenetly listen. And if doing it exactly as it is written is the only method and there is no other way around it, then I will do that because I don't want to just plow on and injure myself.

And as I said before. I really want to incorporate gymnastics in my routine because the results will be nothing short of amazing and I'm very pumped. Even if the first month or two will be quite stale.

And also. I'm sorry if I have come off to look like a stupid and stubborn meathead or prick. I'm not like that in real life. Its just that I'm not used to writing in forums, in english at that so I'm having abit of trouble expressing myself.

Also I have started dancing, belive it or not. But that shouldn't be a problem I belive. But it's worth double cheking. It's not breakdancing or anything similar that involves strenght.

Kokaka said:

And also. I'm sorry if I have come off to look like a stupid and stubborn meathead or prick. I'm not like that in real life. Its just that I'm not used to writing in forums, in english at that so I'm having abit of trouble expressing myself.

Not at all. It's difficult to get tone across sometimes.

Dance as well - I wish I had your energy

Cheers,

George.

PS: If you're concerned about English as a second language (you shouldn't be) you could put your country under location in your profile?

FredInChina said:

Cheers Fred ...now I want some popcorn.

You will probably find that your bent arm strength progresses much faster than your straight arm strength, because that's what your background is.

Anything that involves straight arms, be careful with that. You have had your first taste of what happens when you are not careful, but I would follow the templates verbatim on those movements and holds especially. As leverage decreases, similar things will happen to other joints you have, even with the more difficult bent arm stuff.

I can tell you, from extensive personal experience, that it can get much worse than what you are feeling right now. I know the specwar mindset well, and it will completely break you here.

You should either learn to approach your gymnastics with patience or you should leave gymnastics alone until you can do so. That's real talk. I think we should be able to talk straight to each other, and you are currently exploring various options for self-destruction. 

I've been thinking for awhile and I think what the best Idéa for me right now it to leave GST for 4-6 weeks so my elbows can heal up compleatly since I'm just terrified of getting tendonitis in my elbows.

During this time, I will do the workout that I usually do since my body is used to it and incorporate the mobility aspect from F1 and H1 into my workouts. Trying to master as much mobility as I can.

Afterwards, I will resume GST and follow the program as it is written.