HS/PE>iM2 can't reach shoulder height

I'll be starting on the HS/PE2 and HS/PE>iM2 tomorrow and already know I will have difficulty with the mobility movement.  I can't hold the bar to shoulder height no matter how wide my grip. However, I can swing the bar to shoulder height, it just doesn't stay there    Would it be better to try to go as high as possible, to swing the bar to shoulder height "x" number of times, or to do both? Really enjoying H1 so far.

Joel Alambra said:

I'll be starting on the HS/PE2 and HS/PE>iM2 tomorrow and already know I will have difficulty with the mobility movement.  I can't hold the bar to shoulder height no matter how wide my grip. However, I can swing the bar to shoulder height, it just doesn't stay there    Would it be better to try to go as high as possible, to swing the bar to shoulder height "x" number of times, or to do both? Really enjoying H1 so far.

Go as high as possible with a slow controlled ascent and descent.  Your ROM will improve over time if you work at it.  Start wide and with a light weight.  Keep the weight and width until your ROM has improved.  Then work on narrowing your grip.  I'd suggest marking off  the width you're working on with tape on your bar.  Then when you are sufficiently narrow work on increasing the weight.

These questions were answered by Coach Sommer to the questions I asked in this thread.

Thanks Cannister. I couldn't find that thread for some reason.

No problem.  Keep in mind that it will most likely take months to achieve full ROM even at a wide grip.  You're going to have to be very patient (I'm in the same boat).

me three! 

Indeed. I'm about 2/3 of the way there with a 9 lb "Body Bar" gripped literally as wide as I can while still holding said bar

It will be a while before I have this mastered, but I can already see how these first four iM movements are 100% required for truly opening the shoulders and having strength in the properly aligned handstand (not to mention every single skill that passes through handstand...).

I'm excited As usual, seeing continued leaning out and development.

Hmm, now I'm wondering if I had proper form on HS/PE>iM1 I was definitely able to get the bar (5 lbs) behind my head at roughly shoulder width. Is the proper form for iM1 to sit up straight, lift the bar over your head, and then lean forward? At least, that's what the video looked like to me.

Joel Alambra said:

Hmm, now I'm wondering if I had proper form on HS/PE>iM1 I was definitely able to get the bar (5 lbs) behind my head at roughly shoulder width. Is the proper form for iM1 to sit up straight, lift the bar over your head, and then lean forward? At least, that's what the video looked like to me.

Yes in iM1 there's a forward lean. What did we say above that made you think otherwise?

Nothing in particular. It was just that since I lack a lot of the mobility in iM2, I thought I may have been doing iM1 wrong. 

Joel Alambra said:

Nothing in particular. It was just that since I lack a lot of the mobility in iM2, I thought I may have been doing iM1 wrong. 

I can't claim to have knowledge to the extent that many here have about the bio-mechanics of the shoulder but I'm fairly sure that limited shoulder extension doesn't really indicate a limited amount of shoulder flexion.  Keep on keepin' on.  If you're really nervous post a video and somebody will let you know if you're not quite there yet.

This is definetly a weak link of mine as well. I think it is for alot of people. When you think of it, in your every day life how often does your arms do this motion?

I think it will come salong with time.

Joshua Naterman said:

...I can already see how these first four iM movements are 100% required for truly opening the shoulders and having strength in the properly aligned handstand...

If you wouldn't mind, Joshua, could you could explain how iM2 and iM4 are required for opening the shoulders? I am just curious. My guesses were that they were implemented for two reasons: 1) So that the trainee can lift the weight back to start in dislocates for iM5 and beyond 2) to maintain "structural balance" in the shoulder girdle and prevent injury. I was not aware that they actually helped open the shoulders, which is quite interesting! Especially since I cannot fully open my shoulders in a handstand but I don't have an issue with iM2 with 6 lbs, shoulder width grip.

Cheers

Well, from an exercise science standpoint, motion (eccentric motion in particular) tends to increase range of motion over time. Motion also tends to build strength and mass more quickly than isometric contraction.

iM 2 and 4 help lay the groundwork for the back half of good dowel inlocates and exlocates (what we call dislocates here), which take the shoulder through its full range of motion. These help stretch out the pecs and anterior delts to a greater degree than iM 1 and 3, and strengthen the shoulder girdle in a complementary manner to 1 and 3. For some people, this will help a lot.

When I think of opening the shoulders, I don't just think of the position itself, but also the stability of the position. 

It's true that iM 1 and 3 will contribute more directly to the overhead position, but I feel like I am working different muscles (and parts of the muscles) that are also relevant to the open shoulder position, both in strength and stability, which will lay a good foundation for presses, hollowbacks, etc. Structural balance is important for mobility.

Progressing to near-shoulder width in 1-4 should allow us all to master near-shoulder width dislocates fairly quickly compared to the time it takes us to build these first four, and to do so quite safely.

Thinking about HS/PE>iM2, which i'm not currently practicing...

As of today, I know while using a weighted bar i cannot raise my hands to shoulder height.  So looking towards the future, i have turned this mobility exercise into a stretch after my workouts.  I place my hands behind my back, as close as i can get them, on stall bars and squat slightly to allow my arms to stretch in the upward position, hopefully this will help me achieve HS/PE>iM2.

Hope this helps or give ya'll some ideas.

I like to combine both. Like 3 iM2 followed by the strecth you described, breathing and relaxing (most important), then back to iM2 for a higher / longer hold, breathing and relaxing... 

Then iM1 combined with PE4 with a light load (wich is not PE4 anymore), same pattern. That is my "minor pec" combo.

Then I ask my lady to be kind enough for a trapezius massage

I have no trouble getting my arms quite a ways above shoulder level in a stretch, but I can hardly move them at shoulder width when holding the weighted bar. I do not believe the stretch will help you unless you have truly awful passive ROM.

It takes daily or near-daily isometric work to see your best gains with this movement.

I have already started doing iM2 because I am terrible at it. I have also started some PNF stretches to improve my shoulder extension. I am now regretting getting a bench press for Christmas when I was 13. If only I had this program back then!

Joshua Naterman said:

I have no trouble getting my arms quite a ways above shoulder level in a stretch, but I can hardly move them at shoulder width when holding the weighted bar. I do not believe the stretch will help you unless you have truly awful passive ROM.

 

It takes daily or near-daily isometric work to see your best gains with this movement.

I'll have to start doing this as often as I can.  I just noticed that I don't have the same flexibility in each shoulder since the bar looked cockeyed when I did this in front of a mirror