Zombie Poster Boy needs HS/PE1>iM prerequisites?

Right... I see a couple of you have put up form checks for HS/PE1>iM form and frankly guys you're doing great! Well done

I started with HS/PE1 this week and quickly achieved Tripod Mastery A friend visited today and joined in with some of the wrist work and I asked him to get some pictures of my form doing the Static Seated Flexion with Weighted Bar and while I knew it was very bad I was in for a bit of a shock when I saw the photo below. For me the problem doesn't seem to be the shoulders... yet. It's the position of my lower back and the fact I cannot get into a decent seated position. 

When sat like this trying to lift the bar my knees start to rise up and I feel my lower back working more than anything else so my feeling is to discontinue PE1>iM until I've remedied this problem. The second picture shows me sat as upright as I can pulling on my shins to try and get into a reasonable position but I still seem to be failing miserably. I don't mind... it just means that this is what I need to work on for the time being... I just don't know what areas I need to really target to improve the seated position. The outside of my hips are fairly tight and I've regularly been doing glute/piriformis stretches. My right hip flexor is also much tighter and I've been doing Kit's standing hip flexor stretch and Ido's Diagonal Stretch which are helping me make progress. I'm just wondering if anyone can give me some input on what the problem is likely to be here so I can deal with it and crack on with PE1>iM proper.

I can't be the only person with such shocking mobility but think I deserve the lead zombie role

You should increase the width of the grip! Your hands are to close to each other to stretch the shoulders  

You should work on the pike stretch, target the hamstrings and glutes in your stretches

I would like to see Mr. Joshua Naterman chime in on this one.  Looks like something is going on with the hips..

hehehe, now you have a starting point, a destination, & a good map (H1)... what else do you need 

.................. and yeah, you ARE the lead zombie...

Kudos for putting it out there.

You will need to add F1 to your schedule as well  in order to achieve balanced shoulder girdle mobility work that will address your mobility deficits.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Gray said:

You should increase the width of the grip! Your hands are to close to each other to stretch the shoulders

 

You should work on the pike stretch, target the hamstrings and glutes in your stretches

For now I don't think I ought to even bother with this element, shoulder flexion seems to be the least of my worries at the moment. My hamstrings don't seem too bad and I can get the bar to my toes when doing Jefferson curls or the weighted pike stretch, room for improvement though. I think glutes need more work for sure.

Klaudius Petrulis said:

I would like to see Mr. Joshua Naterman chime in on this one.  Looks like something is going on with the hips..

I'm sure its a hip problem/tightness, would be nice to have some insight from someone a bit more in the know with this stuff though.

FredInChina said:

hehehe, now you have a starting point, a destination, & a good map (H1)... what else do you need 

.................. and yeah, you ARE the lead zombie...

Kudos for putting it out there.

Well, I guess someone needs to show how it's possible to get mobility back. I feel ashamed it's as bad as it is but I can't be the only one who's struggling with it. I felt a bit down yesterday after realizing what a long way I have to go but I did some looking around later on and came across the Pigeon Pose so I'll be adding that from now on as well. No point dwelling on it, just got to crack on and as Coach says 'Take care of today'.

Coach Sommer said:

You will need to add F1 to your schedule as well  in order to achieve balanced shoulder girdle mobility work that will address your mobility deficits.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Thanks for your input Coach, currently working the F1 mobility during workouts and during warmup 6 days a week.

Rich.

This is just a case of time. Multiple movement patterns are restricted. Each tightness leading to another one. So tight hips yes, flutes yes, shoulders yes..... You see where this is going?

Keep it simple. Coach already said it, a balanced approach and time. More work with mobility than on strength right now.

Mobility then Stability.

Have you tried foam rolling/self myofascial release for your legs? Not sure if this will address your issues, but I reckon spending a good amount of time on some of my tightness (eg IT bands, quads, calves), until they actually release - has really made my legs feel better.

Plenty of other zombies out there as well, don't worry about that!

Thank Nic, you're right... one tightness leads to the next and it's hard to know the best place to start.

I think for the time being I'll integrate H1/PE2>iM with H1/PE1 so I can keep the workout brief and then follow up afterwards with a dedicated session focusing on stretching and a scaled back version of PE1. This will probably be sat cross legged up against a wall as I seem to end up with trigger points cropping up in my mid back where I'm trying to make up the lack of shoulder flexion with spinal extension. Coupled with the hip stretches I think I should start to make some progress and maybe after 12 weeks I'll be in a better place to move closer to PE1 proper.

Edna... I really need to start doing more foam rolling on my legs and hips. I knew I was stiff but this has been a bit of a wake up call for me. I've used a roller for my upper body quite a bit but neglected hips down so its about time we get better acquainted

I'll keep track of my progress and post it in case it's of use to anyone else in the future.

Richard Hamilton said:

I can't be the only person with such shocking mobility but think I deserve the lead zombie role

I don't have a picture to post, but my hands are much wider than yours and I'm not as high as you with the bar.  You are definitely not lead zombie.

Richard Hamilton said:

Edna... I really need to start doing more foam rolling on my legs and hips. I knew I was stiff but this has been a bit of a wake up call for me. I've used a roller for my upper body quite a bit but neglected hips down so its about time we get better acquainted

Hey Richard, yeah I am not sure if or how it could help you. My experience with foam rolling is that I didn't see huge benefit until I seriously spent some time eg 20-30min on one IT band or one quad for example. Sitting on my tight spots for like 5min+ and they finally released. Just wish I had done that earlier as it really released my knees which had been chronically hurting. Cheers

I think I'll be doing 2 or 3 mins each side with the foam rolling/SMR work followed by stretches and the PE1>iM. I think a few runs through that should help open things up a bit. I don't think I have the patience to roll for 20 odd minutes! I think little and often may be the way to go on this one

My arms are like 4 feet apart during this one right now, so don't feel like you have to get your hands close together right away... That would be awesome, of course, but it's not realistic.

I find that doing this one multiple times per day is what allows me to progress the best. I use a 9 lb "body bar" for this, which is about 4 feet long, and I grip it at the VERY edges! On H1 days I do the full 5 sets, but on off days I'll do what feels good. That's usually 1-2 sets, 2-3 times per day. This isn't exactly a maximal strength exercise, so you shouldn't be wrecking yourself, but ease into this approach if you decide to try it.

As for the OP hips, looks to me like you need to be spending time with Jefferson curls and standing straddle pikes, and, when your flexibility is better, seated straddle pikes. The core work in the Manna PE exercises will help as well, but this is is my approach (I think you'll find I've essentially copied this from Kit Laughlin)

1) I do these basic stretches every day, just focusing on same ROM. Instead of holding a bar for Jefferson curls every day, I just perform them without the bar, which means using abdominal and hip flexor muscles to achieve the pike. I find that pushing AGAINST my feet or ankles with my hands/fingers helps me learn how to actively use these muscles to progress.

2) When it feels good, which might be once per week or less, I go for a slightly longer ROM or shorter grip (have not currently shortened the grip yet!). For the H1 iM work, I am focused on smoother and smoother movement. When it's like butter, and I feel the right movement all the time, I will narrow my hands an inch, and continue to narrow the hands maybe 2-3x per week until I feel the slightest of differences, and I'll spend time there and move on again when it feels right. For Jefferson curls, I tend to find that every Wednesday is a good day for me to get another half inch or so of ROM. Right now the bar is about an inch below my toes with straight knees. All other days are just limbering up, which means getting close to, or achieving, your last stretch day's full ROM without straining too much. You're not shooting for glory, just good ROM.

3) I always warm up my hips and legs, and then limber them up, before I do the H1 stuff. I also practice iM 1 standing as well as sitting. At first, standing worked much better for me. Now they're both more or less the same.

Joshua Naterman said:

I find that doing this one multiple times per day is what allows me to progress the best. I use a 9 lb "body bar" for this, which is about 4 feet long, and I grip it at the VERY edges! On H1 days I do the full 5 sets, but on off days I'll do what feels good. That's usually 1-2 sets, 2-3 times per day. This isn't exactly a maximal strength exercise, so you shouldn't be wrecking yourself, but ease into this approach if you decide to try it.

I had good progress with this method as well.

Joshua Naterman said:

From the picture it looks like a lumbar flexion instability. You can see the low back hinge as the arms are lifted and you compensate by extending the thoracic spine and lifting the knees.

The posterior hip muscles are obviously tight. I recommend doing lots of PNF stretches for the hips, arch holds and soft tissue releases of the posterior hip. You should use a firm ball to get deeper and more specific into the knotted muscles. A foam roller is too round to get into the hip and pelvis.

You may also need to see a health professional to speed up your progress. You could have some capsular tightness and joint stiffness that needs treating. If you keep hinging at the low back into flexion you will train the brain to always give in the lumbar region, which will lead to soft tissue injury and accumulative strain of the posterior disc.

Coaches foundation series has some really good mobility that will also help.

Thanks for your input Joshua... I think frequency is going to be the key for me with this stuff but as you say, it's best to ease into it. You're right about the manna stuff, it's definitely having a positive effect. At the moment I have no idea how I'm going to attempt MN/PE2 though I think I'll get a lot of mileage from sticking with PE1 for quite sometime. The right side of my core seems to fatigue way quicker than the left so its a good opportunity to get some balance before moving on. The standing straddle pikes sound like a good idea too, I've not been doing these.

Mark Collins said:

From the picture it looks like a lumbar flexion instability. 

 

Funny you should mention that Mark... the right side of my lumbar spine does feel a bit weak on occaision, it's definitely weaker than my left side so I'll be doing arch holds for sometime as my ROM improves. It's frustrating that I'll be doing the same PE's for quite a long time but it's these initial movements that'll set me up with a more balanced body. Me and the lacrosse ball have been getting very well acquainted this week so lets hope the hips open up a little

Richard Hamilton said:

... though I think I'll get a lot of mileage from sticking with PE1 for quite sometime...

 I just wanted to say that this is a refreshing attitude. I don't often see this kind of patience in the forums and it's a great reminder for people, including myself.

mmm said:

 I just wanted to say that this is a refreshing attitude. I don't often see this kind of patience in the forums and it's a great reminder for people, including myself.

Thanks mmm... my outlook on strength training has changed a lot in the last 6 to 9 months and its only come with acceptance of my weakness and deficiencies. It's become personal development, not training to do this or that hold/move.

Regarding HS/PE1>iM I seem to be making very good progress in terms of shoulders. Currently starting to narrow the grip on my stick with 2.5kg. I'm currently doing this sat on a foam roller up against the wall. As time goes on I'll reduce the height of the prop until I'm sitting on the floor.

I also got myself a copy of Yoga, The Path To Holistic Health by BKS Iyengar this week and have started the 20 week programme provided. I thought it would be beneficial in terms of flexibility but it seems to help me wind down in the evenings, allowing me to get an early night. I almost bought Light On Yoga (Coles recommendation) but this book sold itself because of the 20 week course. Maybe I'll get a copy of the other book as I near the 20 week mark.

mmm said:

 I just wanted to say that this is a refreshing attitude. I don't often see this kind of patience in the forums and it's a great reminder for people, including myself.

Couldn't agree more.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Richard Hamilton said:

 I think I'll get a lot of mileage from sticking with PE1 for quite sometime. The right side of my core seems to fatigue way quicker than the left so its a good opportunity to get some balance before moving on. 

you know what, after entering week 5 of programming, I found my body wanting to cheat by swerving towards one side(my right) to compensate the lack of compression strength. so I second this motion, as well. 

Ok, just a quick progress report after 7 weeks of H1.

I got my flat mate to film me (unlisted YT vid) doing PE1>iM today and was quite pleased with the improvement. I started by sitting on a yoga bolster for this PE and last week started using a block about 2" thick and I'm mostly feeling this in my hips now. The shoulder mobility has come along nicely and I have a much better line than in the initial image I posted which I'm happy with. My hands are at full width on the dowel I have and will remain there until I'm sat on the floor without a pad underneath me. There's a lot of improvement needed but as Nic said... it's just a matter of time

The yoga has helped in a big way though I initially started by doing way too much at 5x week as well as F7 and H1 3x week each. I cut back to the 4 day schedule, cut the yoga to 2x week and have been making good progress. Maybe in a year or so I'll have earned the right to train more.

Great progress man, keep it up!

Awesome. Looks like a different body already.

Ok... so I thought I'd put a quick update on here to let you know how I'm doing with this.

Since the last video I hurt my right shoulder while rock climbing and had to take a week off as it didn't feel right going overhead. I had some rotator cuff pain in the front of my shoulder so I visited a sports physio as I was worried about being injured for the London seminar. After some tests and soft tissue work he said I should be able to get back to training the following week so I started with a deload. It's not 100% but it's a lot better and I can do the H1 & F1 work without any pain... infact I think the one big thing I can to do to sort this out is PE1>iM. From now on I won't be getting involved in much other than Gymnastic Bodies work despite my desire to do other stuff... I need to take care of my body which is what the F & H courses seem to be doing with great success. 

Anyway... since the last video where I was sat on a yoga block I started sitting on the carpet with my feet elevated 2.5/3" so the hip stretch was intensified. This helped a lot and I found that after my H1 work I could kind of do PE1>iM. I've started doing this as a warmup between WP/FKP/WR/FTP supersets ready for doing the iM properly so in total I'm doing 10 sets in a H1 session and am making improvements. I also did SL/MN/SLS today which seems to pair well with the H1 stuff for me

When filming myself from the front I noticed myself trying to cheat with my right arm, it's not something I do consciously... it just happens as these muscles don't activate very well... you can see me correct it part way through the set and all of a sudden my upper traps light up! 

I still have a hell of a long way to go with this but I'm enjoying the steady progress that's being made and have started working PE2>iM in the hope that I'll get them both around the same time. I'll be at this forever otherwise! I'm gonna be so stoked when I get these two iM's... it'll be one of my best achievements to date I think. Certainly one of the most worthwhile! 

nice going man! 

I hope you recover well