Shoulders Grinding in Ring Swing

[matthew.percussion]

I've been working hard recently at getting my swing on rings to be higher and more powerful. However, now that it is much more powerful I have noticed a grinding sound/sensation in my shoulders at the top of my back swing. It doesn't really hurt, but it definitely does seem right.

I'm just curious is anyone else has noticed this. I have pretty flexible shoulders, could it possible be that I just need to warm up a bit more?

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks

Matthew

[Coach Sommer]

_n7qJuapbBk

I have noticed a grinding sound/sensation in my shoulders at the top of my back swing. It doesn't really hurt, but it definitely doesn't seem right.

No, that is not acceptable and you should discontinue swinging so high in the back for the time being.

Here are several tips that may be of help to you in your quest to refine your ring swings:

1) Until your technique becomes more refined, I recommend that you begin your swings from a hang. Start very, very small and gradually make the swings larger. As soon as your swing becomes jerky, or anything other than completely smooth through the bottom of the swing, stop the swing and begin again from the hang.

2) Pushing the rings apart as well as forward at the top of the back swing will help to alleviate a great deal of the current stress on your shoulders. My guess is that currently your rings are too narrow and stationary at the top of your back swing. This would force you to attempt to gain swing height through arching your back rather than moving the rings forward and out which would allow your shoulder girdle enough room to open comfortably.

3) A correct ring swing is going to be rather "pear" shaped; your heels should drive up to the straps in the rear and your feet should drive up past the straps in the front.

4) Never kick down into a ring swing; only kick up. During the descent of a swing, whether a back swing or front swing is inconsequential, simply allow the body to follow the same shape coming down that it followed going up.

5) Always remember that a ring swing is NOT a high bar swing. They are tremendously different. On high bar, your body moves around the bar. On rings, the rings move around your body. For a perfect example of this watch Vladimir Artemev, the 1988 Olympic AA Champion, in the video clip above. Notice that at all times his center of gravity (i.e. the belly button for practical purposes) stays under the top of the ring tower at all times and in all parts of his giant swing work.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[matthew.percussion]

I actually pull thing rings out quite well. In the top of my back swing (from what I can tell) my chest is at or near ring height and my arms are near iron cross position, relative to the angle of my body.

I'm not too sure that it is a technique error. I'll try to make a video of a few swings, just to double check.

Thanks for your input.

[Blairbob]

Unfortunately, my post had some IE7 issues and didn't go through. It was long. Anyways.

Are you flexible in your shoulders by gymnastic standards or normal athletic people standards?

For ring warmup we do skin the cat, hold bottom for 5s, pull out, 5 lazy swings and dismount. Ideally, that's what I'd have the L4 do but some of them are too weak to pull out or hold the bottom now. I also like to do straddle swings and hip circles to loosen up the lower back.

We do stick dislocates in our warmup in over, under, and eagle grip ( sort of like the bottom of a skin the cat/german hang ).

Arms at a 45 degree angle would be ok. I'd prefer my boys to be able to do a 60 degree angle if not nearly shoulder width ( I can't anymore, but it's some has came back ).

Here's a thread on ring swing at CrossFit.

http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=35541&highlight=ring+swing

A nice lecture from National Congress about developing ring swing.

http://www.cousagmen.net/ppt/07%20congress%20ring%20presentation/Developing%20Ring%20Swing.ppt

What I would consider good basic ring swing to the point of starting to add the ring action. It's by a L5. Notice how he is pushing the ring forwards in the back swing and swinging through his thorasic area. His head is coming out a bit, but it happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRZacM3_Fjk&feature=channel_page

The same boy swinging a few years later in L6. Notice the ring turnout in the back swing. Slight bend of the arms in the front swing as he pulls back which is common. Unfortunately, two of my L4's were taught this too early and their head is out way too much in their basic swing and it's carrying over to their high bar swing as they are bending their arms too much. I wouldn't teach it until the above basic swing can be done.

A level 7/9 boy swinging. Notice the turnover. It's also commented on in the above CF thread.

http://www.drillsandskills.com/video/riz001.mpg

Artemev's swing is beautiful. I just didn't want to post any Elites swinging since it's kind of nice to see where it builds from and to. I was told once, to see good men's swing try to watch the JO Nationals instead of the collegiate men or Elites as they tend to change their swing technique from textbook form for their own purposes sometimes purposely killing their swing with textbook errors.

[Gregor]

The point is to have always center of body mass in the midlle as Coach said.

I don't agree with bending arms in front swing. Actualy it should be giant swing forward in reverse and there isn't any bending.

PS:Mathew post a video...

[Blairbob]

Actually, Gregor. I don't and have never taught that the arms bend in the front swing. I just noted that it is common when training young gymnasts on pulling back the rings in the front swing. I remember seeing when I was first training as a men's coach at one gym and asking the head coach why. I didn't get much of an answer. The boy in question was small with good swing but not really that strong. Perhaps, it's just a strength thing.

They pull with their elbows and pecs and not their shoulders and lats.

If they pull back, it seems it should be delts and lats. If they pull back and out, it should be lats, delts, and pecs. Oh yeah, traps too in either case.

[Gregor]

I don't think it has much with strength, but with coaches mistake to let him bent his arms.....You must swing as high as possible, but not on a dispense (I hope I choose correct word :oops: ) on a tehnic. if you are not strong enough you just swing in that range until you will.

For swings- inverted cross or at least reverse inverted croses...

[matthew.percussion]

I learned quickly not to bend my arms on rings in almost, if not all situations. When I first started gymnastics I was in a recreational class and the coach, inexperienced, wanted me to try a dislocate. However, he did not spot me. I peeled off and landed flat back on the ground. Knocked the wind outa me and gave me whip lash.

I won't be able to get video tonight because I will be training with the team, but Saturday morning I practice alone. I will do my best to get some video then.

[marcoms]

_n7qJuapbBk

The video has been removed.

[Mats Trane]

In what direction should the palms of my hands face in the frontswing?

[Blairbob]

forward, but eventually you can pull them apart and the palms will face each other ( turned in, not turned out )