Hybrid training - gymnastic bodies & powerlifting

I am a 46yr old 200lb competitive amatuer powerlifter.  Although i've competed in full meets (squat, bench, deadlift), I currently am focusing on the bench press and am training for a National level meet in late April.  I am at the level which I am close to breaking a national and world bench record at a masters level.  For what it's worth that would be over a 500lb bench in a geared (bench shirt) meet.

As I am a bit older and hopefully wiser, I have been more in tune to joint mobility and shoulder strength / stability.  This along with back strength is huge is powerlifting and has become more of a focus for me as the weights I handle continue to climb.

I provided this bit of background so you can understand why I've been drawn to the gymnastics bodies training protocol.  My goal is to begin incorporating different GB exercises into my training in an effort to improve my shoulder strength and stability.  That I feel can only help my competitive benching in powerlifting meets.

So, here's my request / question... As I look thru the GB ebook, I am a bit overwhelmed by the amount of info.  I was hoping that Coach Somer or someone on this forum can point me toward some of the GB upper body exercises to start incorporating into my training.

Currently, i was planning on working in some static hold handstands (against a wall) and some forms of dips.  I've done dips in the past, but have avoided them in recent years due to shoulder discomfort.

any input is appreciated.

thanks

James

Hi James,

First off, awesome stuff with the powerlifting. I've always been drawn to that part of fitness and the deadlift is probably one of my favourite exercises.

Anyway, on to the meat and potatoes... You will most likely get suggestions to purchase the F1 course from many, and this is also my advice.  The mobility pieces involved in that are fantastic. H1 also has some great stuff on mobility, but I would advise going with F1 first if you can. The key is to have strength and mobility at an equal level so your joints can handle what your muscles are doing.

Good luck and hopefully I'll see you in the Foundations forum!

Well, if dips cause shoulder pain for you then I can say, almost for sure, that you probably have scapular dyskinesia to some degree.

You can absolutely run F1 with powerlifting, so if you decide to do so we can discuss that in the Foundation One forum.

HS1 has mobility drills that I think could really, really help you. They are helping me, for whatever that's worth.

SInce I have just today purchased the GB ebook, its probably a bit soon to buy anything else.   

Hoping to just get some direction to incorporate the rings into my training along with any other exercise in th GB book...

thx

not sure what scapular dyskensia means or what HS1 is??

moustache1023 said:

not sure what scapular dyskensia means or what HS1 is??

HS1 is the handstand course. I don't mean to come across as a salesmen, but as Josh said, the HS1 course has lots of drills for shoulder health and mobility. Honestly sounds like exactly what you're looking for.

Yes, these new courses offer some much needed structure and considerations for beginners. I feel like a new person with the F1 mobility drills, and I imagine once I get further into H1 my shoulders will feel like they're lubed with WB40!

To be honest, BtGB is a great reference book, but for actual training the new courses are far more effective for the general GST practitioner.

Great background you have there!

I can only imagine what adding gymnastic conditioning to your training regime will do to your career longetivity and results.

Knowing that your shoulders can take a beating from any angle and position will also greatly increase one's self confidence, which probably makes even more to improve your results.

The advice above is very sound Moustache1023 (great forum name BTW ), and I am sure you would benefit greatly from these programs;

However,

6 or 7 weeks out from an important competition might not be the best of times to change your training & peaking protocols...

I am not into powerlifting, so my consideration is very general, but maybe this is something for you to revisit after your meet?

Jim,

What gear are you using? Single ply? As I am sure you know the level of gear does affect the lift differently.

What is your current training plan? Weak point in the lift, etc.

You mention shoulder discomfort, injury history or just chronic annoyance.

If you are considering purchasing F1, do not over look the new H1 material the shoulder mobility work in there would seriously help with stability and balanced strength.

If you are a competitive powerlifting you probably don't want to try to add all of F1 on top of your current training. If you want to start gaining some of the benefits of gymnastics exercises without disrupting your current regime, you could experiment and find which exercises and mobility elements benefit you the most, then use them as assistance exercises. Programing gymnastics with PL can be difficult if you try to tackle too many exercises that require a lot from the CNS, but I know some guys who have had good results with including front lever and back lever in their assistance work. Also if you were to only use the mobility elements from F1 and skip the strength you would probably get a lot out of it.

I am currently using a custom multi (2) ply bench shirt made by Overkill.  My best competitive bench in that gear is 460lbs this past November.  That was a Michigan AAPF Masters (45-49) 198lb State record.  In my current training I am handling weight / working up to training weight in the 500 - 575lb ranges.  I basically follow a Westside barball approach.  It has a Max effort training day and a dynamc/volume training day. I also, in between those session, do smaller prehab sessions.. the prehab focus is mobility and other exercises to supplement what I did the day prior or what I am going to be doing...

I dont think my shoulder issue is something that is chronic..  Its the results of the stresses to that joint that come with training week in and week out with very heavy weight.  I am very in tune with how my body feels and will chiropractic, massage, ultra sound, etc.. to keep me in the game.

I plan on slowly incorporating some of the exercises from GB or HS1 into my dynamic/volume training day and the mobility exercises in my prehab sessions.  

To those that responded and suggested I go with the HS1 program, I did check into it and was able to cancel my Rings order and will be getting the HS1 program today.

I am extremely familiar with Westside. H1 mobility especially will serve you well. After some time with it dips should become an option again. The more time you spend up the heavy loads especially on equipped days you need the mobility.

Nic,

So are you a PL'er also?  

I just bought the HS1 a few minutes ago.  I am looking forward to incorporating it into my training....

Former lifter, also have had the pleasure to train an AAU (Raw) National record holder from amateur status to said record to Pro-Strongman status.

Moustache1023,

I am an over 50 former army guy and PL, but not as successful in PL as you. 

Gant Grimes has a great gymnastic/PL/Oly hybrid lifting program listed on a BB forum.  I found good success with his program.  I can't remember the link since i printed the program.

As for your shoulder problem, the Diesel Crew [a big PL club], has some great youtube videos on prehab/rehab shoulder exercises that you cn do before you start doing German Hangs off of the rings.  That is what I did.  Now I have strong and flexible shoulders using Coach S's ring workouts.  I am sure I will continue to progress with the F1 and H1 courses. 

Good luck in your contests and shoulder health.

Paul

Thanks Paul, I will surf around and see if I can find the Grant Grimes program you mentioned.   I am also familiar with the Diesel Crew, although I haven't reviewed their stuff recently.  I will have to go back and check them out again.

Another one I really like is Kelly Starrett.  His WOD site is awesome...  I've been incorporating his 5 way shoulder mobility band stretches in my pre-workout warm-ups and also in prehab workouts I do.

http://www.mobilitywod.com/2011/04/episode-211-the-simple-five-way-shoulder.html

so yesterday and today I started dabbling in the H1 program.. Primarily i've been using the flexibility / mobility elements..

Yesterday I worked thru some of the wrist stretches.. WOW, never knew my forearms were so TIGHT.  I tried all the wrist stretches from WRS1-4 with some being a bit  less challenging than the others, but didn't come close to "really" doing any.. All with due time.. i tried some wrist pushups, wrist rocks, etc...  humbling to say the least...

Then on to the HS stuff, I didn't do any of the headstand stuff, but just focused on the first mobility exercises... Can you say shoulders are tight and unflexible.. holy cow..

Tonight, I was a bit more structured and tried to have a plan going in...  Here's what I did...

- Warmed up with a few rounds of the wrist stretches

- 25 (or so) dislocates with a broom stick

- 5 way shoulder mobility WOD exercises with a band (love Kelly Starrett's stuff)

H1 work

- PE1/PE3, mixed the static holds with reps.  was holding a 9lb bar

- PE4, about 10 reps

- PE2/PE4 iM, mixed the static hold with reps.  I tried PE2 yesterday and the range was small.. Range today was double, although not close to horizontal..

- PE5, about 4-5, mixed static holds with some resp

Weights

- Cuban rotations with EZ curl bar, 15x20lb, 15x30lb, 15x40lb

- Dips/dip shrugs - 4 sets of 10 dips followed by 10 dip shrugs

- palm facing pull-ups, 4 sets of 10

- Standing close grip rows with low pully attachment, 3 sets

- Barbell lat shrugs, 135x10, 185x10, 225x10, 275x10

Handstands

- used some push-up bars, kicked up against a wall and did 3 sets of approx 20-30 sec static holds, focused on fully extending and then did a few partial HS push-ups/HS shrugs.. range of motion on these was short.

Finshed with a few sets of pull aparts with a Jump stretch mini band.. 1 set palms down x 30, 1 set palms up x 30, 

Shoulders felt good...

James

Here is the Gant Grimes link:  http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=111530641&page=1

I second your Dr KStarr recomendation.  If you are following his Rx then you will have very good shoulder health.  I follow his MobiltyWOD and just ordered his book.

Good luck

Paul

Gentlemen,

- Your approach is incorrect.  Your training is all over the place.  For optimal results you may not simply pick and choose whichever elements look interesting to you and then throw them together in whatever order your feel like.  There is an order of progressions which need to be followed for optimal results.

- Follow the program as laid out.  There is no advantage in running here and there unless your are using H1 for cardio training.  

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer,

With respect to the H1 program and specifically a persons "intent" to MASTER a handstand, I would agree that following the program as it is laid out would be the best course of action.

What I disagree with is your comment that my approach is "incorrect".  My approach / intent in buying the $95 H1 program was initially not to become a handstand master.  My intent was to tap into the gymnastics training world and try and find a different approach to improving my shoulder mobility / stability / strength.  These things are one of the many pieces of the puzzle I am using to obtain my short term goal of 

breaking a National and World bench press record as a 46yr old 198lb Powerlifter.

If you have the background and experience in training National level powerlifting bench press competitors, then I would certainly like to understand your approach with them in the areas that I have outlined.  If you do not have that experience, then I feel your comments in your post were unwarranted.

What I am looking for, is a way to blend the aspects of GB / H1, etc.. training with my Powerlifting.  If gymnasts can develop tremendous shoulder flexibility / strength, then that's something I want to tap into.  Unfortunately, I have to "pick and choose" right now.  Once I get past my next competition I can re-evaluate and see how I can work the program comprehensively into my training.

Finally, it was brought to my attention that some posts to this thread were deleted and for some reason despite having a multiple of replies and probably many views, this thread shows 0, zero..  It's your forum and your site and you can do what you want, BUT it is hard for me to understand why you would want to censor (unless it is derogatory or offensive in some way) any information that is posted.

regardless of what is posted, people will still buy GB and the rest of the products.  I or anyone else are not trying to take that away.  

I in fact am already a huge fan of the H1.  In just a few days I've noticed a big difference in my shoulder mobility after having done some of the exercises that i picked out.   I am telling my training partners about what I am doing and will continue to be vocal about GB and H1 and I use it more and more.   

Why on earth would you want to limit that exposure??  You have an untapped market in the strength sports...

In conculsion I will say that regardless of what you do with post, I will continue to visit this site and most likely in the future will buy other products, including a set of rings.

Respectfully

James P

James,

- I appreciate the respectful tone of your comments; even though it is apparent that we are not in complete agreement.  

- Glad that you are finding the H1 mobility so helpful.

- It is 'incorrect' when requesting a forum review of alternate programming advice that is against what is prescribed in the course.  I do not want general readers confused on how to implement the program.

- You may of course implement it on your own however works best for you.

- As a US National Team Coach as well as a somewhat old fashioned gentleman, I have very strong opinions on what is appropriate training-wise.  Nor am I shy about sharing my opinion.

- The GB forum is moderated; always has been and always will be.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach,

I appreciate the response and do understand the integrity of what you are trying to maintain here.  If I have specific program questions I will post.  If I have questions more specific to an element I am incorporating with my powerlifting, I will use PM.

regards,

Jim

Perfect.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

moustache1023 said:

Coach Sommer,

 

Finally, it was brought to my attention that some posts to this thread were deleted and for some reason despite having a multiple of replies and probably many views, this thread shows 0, zero..  It's your forum and your site and you can do what you want, BUT it is hard for me to understand why you would want to censor (unless it is derogatory or offensive in some way) any information that is posted.

This is because the thread was moved, the old 'shell' topics remain in the original forum to show they've been moved but the post count is always at 0.  I do not feel this was a form of censoring anything, just moving the topic to the appropriate forum