New here, trying to get started with gymnastics/calisthenics

Trying to implement upper body calisthenics into my routine. I am a 20-year-old college football player looking to improve my power (speed and strength), and have recently wanted to try improving my relative and BW strength.

I am currently 6'0" and 210, so I am a lot...bigger than most people who try calisthenics. I have a decent strength base already, but not great (350 bench, 210 overhead press, 315 squat [knee injuries], and 545 deadlift).

I do my own routine 4 days a week, and it includes all the power lifting lifts, along with overhead press, but I've been thinking of just getting my form down and switching to solely Olympic lifts and upper body calisthenics, with a little chest and bicep work a few times a week afterwards like Chinese lifters do (Lu Xiaojun, to be specific).

I have NO background with ANY body weight exercises or gymnastics, so I don't really know where to start. I've seen some of the prerequisites posted here, and here's what I can do:

-About 3 full range of motion body weight pull ups. Barely ever do them, and have never done a program, as they seem to bother my shoulders. I want to fix this and be able to do an amazingly heavy weighted pull up.

->60s Hollow Hold. I can do the for a lot longer, never tested my true endurance, as I train solely for strength.

-I THINK I can do Superman holds for 60s, but not sure how much I have to lift my upper body off the ground...is it just my shoulders? My upper pecs? my entire chest? How far down has to be off the ground?

-I did 3 kind of easy reps of dips today with 135 attached to me (I weigh 210, so 335 total), so I'm assuming I can do a lot of BW dips.

-I can hold both planks for a while, more than 60s.

-I can hold an L-sit for a while, but I always have trouble keeping my legs straight, due to quad weakness from knee injuries.

-I can hold a frog stand for a more than 30s, though it bother my wrist, so I always stop at 30s. Can get into a headstand and sometimes stay in it for a while (sometimes it's hard, as my room is small and I'm afraid to fall back).

-Still can't get into a handstand at all.

-Back flexibility appears to suck. Tried a back bridge for the first time today, and it was very hard.

Anything I didn't cover? Anyways, I already have some strength and can do some basic things, like dips, but I'm still a beginner and want to know where I should go from here? Please keep in mind I train solely for strength, so once I become proficient at something (like BW dips), I ALWAYS add weight.

Hello and welcome!

I see from what you've written that you could definitely benefit from F1. It has strength and mobility aspects for someone new to GST. It's gotten amazing feedback from the community and I really like it, which is saying a lot (I'm a picky dude)

Good luck on your Gymnastic Strength journey!

Oh, also, I forgot to ask, what are your goals in this realm? Do you want to learn specific movements or just be generally good with bodyweight stuff? Or gain mobility, etc. That will determine a lot

Welcome to the forum! If your goals are strength you can add weight and/or program FSP. Fundamental Static Positions(FSP) are amazing for strength and joint conditioning. If you work up to the advanced steps of FSP, you can do PL pushups or FL rows. These excersizes take incredible strength to weight ratio and will help you a great deal in the weight room too.

Tip: If you do dips on parallel bars and your shoulders nag you went you get up in weight, use rings. The free movement takes away shoulder pain and builds your stabilizers like crazy!

Its best to list your goals so we, as a community, can help you achieve them. 

Thanks, guys!

Tavis G said:

Its best to list your goals so we, as a community, can help you achieve them. 

The only thing is, while my main goal is just to get stronger for sports, I really want, well...everything. I want to be big, strong, fast, powerful, aesthetic and have amazing body control so I can destroy running backs. The only "controlling" movements I really do are headstands and Pallof Press (GREAT weighted exercise for obliques!).

Gymnastics take amazing body and core control, and I feel as though they would help me on the field even more than traditional weights (cause, I mean, you can still make gymnastics weighted, so you get the heavy loads AND utilize your body weight, which is important), which is why I switched flat bench out for dips as my main chest/tri exercise, with incline for upper chest.

Still want to utilize weightlifting obviously, as I think it would be foolish to ditch things like one-legged deadlifts and leg press, but want to primarily focus on Olympic lifting and calisthenics for a while to see where it takes me.

Also just look around the community of bodyweight lifters. Bar Brothers, BarStarz, Bar Angels, all a good place to start. CT Fletcher from Strength Project is also a great guy to listen to for motivation, and getting in the mindset for workouts.

Other than that, go for it. Pullups, muscleups (even cheat ones), pushups, dips, and core. I have yet to check out H1 or F1, but from what I have heard and read they are really good, and I will be checking them out.

All the best, let us know how it goes.

An excersize to master that will give you a crazy core is the L-sit. And Master the Back Lever. It is an easy lever to master and will make your shoulders and chest very strong at an angle. Also your core will beneftit as well. 

In my opinion, you should master the basic levers, and then move on to the planche. They will give you amazing body control and bulletproof elbows, not to mention an iron core and strong upper body muscles.

Make room for a FSP at the beginning of a workout. Over time you will get stronger and everything will improve.

And if you utilize shoulder press or any overhead press, try to sub that out or mix it up with some handstands against a wall. Then try pushups, the increase the ROM. You will have even greater body awareness and crazy strong shoulders and tris.

Tavis G said:

Welcome to the forum! If your goals are strength you can add weight and/or program FSP. Fundamental Static Positions(FSP) are amazing for strength and joint conditioning. If you work up to the advanced steps of FSP, you can do PL pushups or FL rows. These excersizes take incredible strength to weight ratio and will help you a great deal in the weight room too.

 

Tip: If you do dips on parallel bars and your shoulders nag you went you get up in weight, use rings. The free movement takes away shoulder pain and builds your stabilizers like crazy!

 

Its best to list your goals so we, as a community, can help you achieve them. 

So there is some misinformation in this post that I would like to clear up.  FSP are good for joint conditioning but any good program will include mobility exercises to prepare the joints and help strength through range of motion.  This is one of the best things about the F1 series.  It includes mobility for every step of the way. 

Also doing FSP will not automatically give you PL pushups or FL rows.  These are bent arm strength movements and should be worked in tandem with the basic straight arm levers not later on.  

The last thing is probably the biggest.  Do not move to rings if you feel some sort of pain from dips on p-bars.  Never ignore a problem!  Doing so will allow imbalances to advance and you may eventually (probably) injure yourself down the road for not working the weakness.

Tavis G said:

In my opinion, you should master the basic levers, and then move on to the planche. They will give you amazing body control and bulletproof elbows, not to mention an iron core and strong upper body muscles.

I think it perfectly fine to work planche along with other levers.  I consider the lower variations of the planche (straddle) to be a basic lever in its own right.  In the code of points it is called a support lever.  I realize it usually takes longer to get a planche than FL or BL but you may find they complement each other well especially PL and FL.  The programming of this relies in the order of progressions.  Something that the Foundation series has laid out nicely.

I really want, well...everything. I want to be big, strong, fast, powerful, aesthetic and have amazing body control so I can destroy running backs.

Ah, so you want to be like Batman? There will have to be some sacrifices..

No but seriously, having a few movements that you work on seems like the best direction, especially with all of your other training. It took me a long time to learn that I could only master very few of the many things I want to be amazing at.

I meant that whenever you get to the advanced stages of levers you can work to achieve their dynamic counterparts. Sorry for confusion. And yes it is important to work on mobility too.

Falcon63 said:

Trying to implement upper body calisthenics into my routine. I am a 20-year-old college football player looking to improve my power (speed and strength), and have recently wanted to try improving my relative and BW strength.

 

I am currently 6'0" and 210, so I am a lot...bigger than most people who try calisthenics. I have a decent strength base already, but not great (350 bench, 210 overhead press, 315 squat [knee injuries], and 545 deadlift).

 

I do my own routine 4 days a week, and it includes all the power lifting lifts, along with overhead press, but I've been thinking of just getting my form down and switching to solely Olympic lifts and upper body calisthenics, with a little chest and bicep work a few times a week afterwards like Chinese lifters do (Lu Xiaojun, to be specific).

 

I have NO background with ANY body weight exercises or gymnastics, so I don't really know where to start. I've seen some of the prerequisites posted here, and here's what I can do:

 

-About 3 full range of motion body weight pull ups. Barely ever do them, and have never done a program, as they seem to bother my shoulders. I want to fix this and be able to do an amazingly heavy weighted pull up.

 

->60s Hollow Hold. I can do the for a lot longer, never tested my true endurance, as I train solely for strength.

 

-I THINK I can do Superman holds for 60s, but not sure how much I have to lift my upper body off the ground...is it just my shoulders? My upper pecs? my entire chest? How far down has to be off the ground?

 

-I did 3 kind of easy reps of dips today with 135 attached to me (I weigh 210, so 335 total), so I'm assuming I can do a lot of BW dips.

 

-I can hold both planks for a while, more than 60s.

 

-I can hold an L-sit for a while, but I always have trouble keeping my legs straight, due to quad weakness from knee injuries.

 

-I can hold a frog stand for a more than 30s, though it bother my wrist, so I always stop at 30s. Can get into a headstand and sometimes stay in it for a while (sometimes it's hard, as my room is small and I'm afraid to fall back).

 

-Still can't get into a handstand at all.

 

-Back flexibility appears to suck. Tried a back bridge for the first time today, and it was very hard.

 

Anything I didn't cover? Anyways, I already have some strength and can do some basic things, like dips, but I'm still a beginner and want to know where I should go from here? Please keep in mind I train solely for strength, so once I become proficient at something (like BW dips), I ALWAYS add weight.

Read this post by Ido Portal: 

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/2507-gymnastics-and-bodyweight-sc-supperior-to-weight-lifting/

For optimal training purposes, you can only choose one or the other. Otherwise you are doing CrossFit. To be honest, I consider gymnastics skills to be party tricks and not functional in other sports. I do think that GST can help with competitive power lifting though. Except for single leg squat, I can't see how the other 6 skills of the foundation series (front lever, planche, rope climb, manna, side lever,  and hollow back press) will give you that competitive "edge" over your opponents. Do these skills require a massive amount of upper body strength! YES! But do these advanced moves  develop functional strength in sports such as football, basketball, baseball, or soccer? No. Just practice the sport. 

I think you would be better off with just doing basic weighted dips and pull ups on rings, but if you truly want to excel in GST you are pretty much going to have to give up weight lifting all together. And expect to lose some muscle mass in the process. Having those skills aren't going to make you a better running back. And no matter how much the foundation series prepares you, there is always the risk of injury especially for someone as heavy and big as you. Then you'll be sidelined. Is risking your joints and ligaments to do party tricks worth being sidelined in football? 

The three basic levers (front, back, side) are reasonable goals but anything more advanced than that is wishful thinking. 

Paolo, I'm going to disagree.

First off, we should all realize that American football is a hip dominant sport. Having a good hang clean, a strong deadlift, strong front squat, and relatively equal strength with single leg counterparts (bulgarian split squats, to be specific) is the single most important set of skills to have in that sport, because football is a sport of momentum. Strong legs are what generate that momentum.

The OP would be a fool to abandon such training, and that includes dropping squats and deadlifts in favor of just doing O-lifting.

The single leg work in F1 will absolutely help, partially because there are movements within the SLS progressions that specifically strengthen all of your knee ligaments over time, and partially because they build the kind of stability that the OP is going to need after knee surgeries.

As for the upper body stuff, I'm going to tell this straight up:

If the OP is any kind of a defensive player, he should definitely put GST into his routine as his main upper body work. Why? Because there are a lot, and I mean a LOT, of times when all you have is an arm tackle, especially in open field. Following the Foundation programming and building up to even flat tuck planche will allow a much higher percentage of successful arm tackles, because you'll be able to hang on from a position that most people have zero strength in.

If he's an offensive player, he will certainly be harder to injure and will have better spatial awareness of where his body is, and that's also very important. I suppose he may improve his ability to hang onto the ball as well, but the superiority of GST in that area is debatable. A lineman would also benefit from better straight arm strength.

A warning to the OP:

I came here strong as balls, just like you, except I wasn't quite as strong in the bench press (225 for 21 reps @ 225, no idea about max... probably somewhere around 320), had at least equal strength in the dips, and I was far stronger in the pull ups. My squat was not as strong, and my deadlift was 35 lbs lower, as I pulled 510 for a double.

I used what was avaiable at the time, and tried my hand at sort of programming planche work based on what I knew from weights... and it was good. For about five months. Then, too late, I realized that my connective tissues were just not well developed enough for the amount of work I was doing... I was so strong that I had a short straddle planche and was doing 7-10 reps of nice flat tuck PL push ups, but my elbows slowly fell apart as I focused on strength, just like I always had. Do not fall into the same trap.

If F1 had been out back then, I would have had zero problems. I have no idea how strong I'd be today, but I'd be miles and miles past where I currently am. I would certainly be WAY past F4 in all areas except perhaps Manna.

My best suggestion for someone in the OP's position is to pick up F1 and then open a thread in the Foundation One forum to find out how we would suggest that a college football player adjust their weight work to accommodate F1.

I will not make suggestions here, because I do not think it would be very nice of me to enable someone to accidentally hurt themselves.

There's no sense in talking about integration of something that you don't have.

Falcon63, those are my most honest suggestions. I think that the Foundation program will give you what you want, and we'll help guide you through your progression. I do suggest that, if you decide to pick up the Foundation series, that you always make sure you achieve mastery of each level before progressing, but we can talk about that in the Foundation One forum once you own the program.

If you follow F1 as recommended in the program, you will not get hurt. I'm bigger than you are, 6'1 and 225 lbs. I'm actually getting healthier with F1, and that's with a 31 year old body that's been beat up pretty badly. A young, relatively healthy body like yours is going to get better results.

We have a wide variety of ages and body types that are all getting stronger and healthier with the Foundation programming, and you are not going to be an exception.

Paolo said:

Read this post by Ido Portal: 

 

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/2507-gymnastics-and-bodyweight-sc-supperior-to-weight-lifting/

 

For optimal training purposes, you can only choose one or the other. Otherwise you are doing CrossFit. To be honest, I consider gymnastics skills to be party tricks and not functional in other sports. I do think that GST can help with competitive power lifting though. Except for single leg squat, I can't see how the other 6 skills of the foundation series (front lever, planche, rope climb, manna, side lever,  and hollow back press) will give you that competitive "edge" over your opponents. Do these skills require a massive amount of upper body strength! YES! But do these advanced moves  develop functional strength in sports such as football, basketball, baseball, or soccer? No. Just practice the sport. 

 

I think you would be better off with just doing basic weighted dips and pull ups on rings, but if you truly want to excel in GST you are pretty much going to have to give up weight lifting all together. And expect to lose some muscle mass in the process. Having those skills aren't going to make you a better running back. And no matter how much the foundation series prepares you, there is always the risk of injury especially for someone as heavy and big as you. Then you'll be sidelined. Is risking your joints and ligaments to do party tricks worth being sidelined in football? 

 

The three basic levers (front, back, side) are reasonable goals but anything more advanced than that is wishful thinking. 

Im sorry but this is just wrong.  There is a reason that many kids in the Soviet Union were prepared as gymnasts and went to other sports when they "retired" at a young age.  Gymnastics gives you control over your body in a way that most other sports can't.  This awareness has huge carry over.  Im going to ignore the crossfit comment for now.  The mobility in foundation is alone worth the price especially for people playing sports.  I have no Idea why college football wont focus on this as much.  It would be such a huge boost.  Especially when getting tackled and cutting on one leg.  

If I had had the strength and joint preparation I have now when I played soccer in High school it would have been a total different ball game.  I would have avoided many ankle, knee and shoulder injuries and would have performed much better.  Its true that working on the "skills" of gymnastics isn't a good move when your focus should be on getting better at football.  However there aren't really that many "skills" in foundation 1.  It is mostly a Foundation(go figure)  of strength and mobility that would carry over into any physical endeavor.  

Also there are several coaches and players of other sports who would tell you what I am saying including personal friends who are track athletes, swimmers.  There have also been people who coach has worked with in the past that have gained a lot from his strength training methods.

I agree.

Every football player that I have talked to has seen the value of what they see me doing, in terms of their ability to play the game, but none want to do the work. They are familiar with their barbells, so they stick with their barbells. Nothing wrong with that, if you don't mind all the wasted potential.

I also agree.

Foundation 1 isn't even gymnastics specific! When I wrestle with guys who barbell lift a lot, they often tell me how strong I am. I always think, "Who, me?" because even though they find me strong, I am pitifully weak by GB standards. Most of the non-gymnast athletes that I have met have very narrow ranges of athleticism because all they do is run, squat, benchpress, etc. while the gymnast just seem to be able to do anything.

Well, I would say that F1 is certainly very far from being gymnastics exclusive It is definitely specifically designed to get us all where we want to go in terms of GST, but many people do not realize how much GST adds to all-around athleticism I assume this has a lot to do with the fact that most people have never trained in the GB style.

As for your experience with other athletes, that is very, very true.  This was my experience as well.

They know not how limited they are, nor how easily they could become so much more than they are.

Daniel Burnham said:

Im sorry but this is just wrong.  There is a reason that many kids in the Soviet Union were prepared as gymnasts and went to other sports when they "retired" at a young age.  Gymnastics gives you control over your body in a way that most other sports can't.  This awareness has huge carry over.  Im going to ignore the crossfit comment for now.  The mobility in foundation is alone worth the price especially for people playing sports.  I have no Idea why college football wont focus on this as much.  It would be such a huge boost.  Especially when getting tackled and cutting on one leg.  

 

If I had had the strength and joint preparation I have now when I played soccer in High school it would have been a total different ball game.  I would have avoided many ankle, knee and shoulder injuries and would have performed much better.  Its true that working on the "skills" of gymnastics isn't a good move when your focus should be on getting better at football.  However there aren't really that many "skills" in foundation 1.  It is mostly a Foundation(go figure)  of strength and mobility that would carry over into any physical endeavor.  

 

Also there are several coaches and players of other sports who would tell you what I am saying including personal friends who are track athletes, swimmers.  There have also been people who coach has worked with in the past that have gained a lot from his strength training methods.

I'm not denying the benefits of mobility in F1 because I'm sure it will definitely help with strengthening, protecting, and preventing injuries to joints and ligaments. I'm not entirely sure what's in F1 but as the title suggests, you will master the basics. Then F 2-4 will guide you to mastering those 7 skills - that's what the F series is all about right? Then move on to bigger and better things. 

I never bought into the "spatial awareness hype." So doing GST will make an athlete more coordinated? Increase shooting accuracy in basketball and crossovers? Catching a football and tackling and dodging? Kicking a soccer ball? 

I don't see it.

If the OP tries GST and like it, then he should go for it, but if the OP thinks mastering the aforementioned skills in F1 will make him a superior RB then I think he will be disappointed. 

Joshua Naterman said:

Paolo, I'm going to disagree.

 

First off, we should all realize that American football is a hip dominant sport. Having a good hang clean, a strong deadlift, strong front squat, and relatively equal strength with single leg counterparts (bulgarian split squats, to be specific) is the single most important set of skills to have in that sport, because football is a sport of momentum. Strong legs are what generate that momentum.

 

The OP would be a fool to abandon such training, and that includes dropping squats and deadlifts in favor of just doing O-lifting.

 

The single leg work in F1 will absolutely help, partially because there are movements within the SLS progressions that specifically strengthen all of your knee ligaments over time, and partially because they build the kind of stability that the OP is going to need after knee surgeries.

 

As for the upper body stuff, I'm going to tell this straight up:

 

If the OP is any kind of a defensive player, he should definitely put GST into his routine as his main upper body work. Why? Because there are a lot, and I mean a LOT, of times when all you have is an arm tackle, especially in open field. Following the Foundation programming and building up to even flat tuck planche will allow a much higher percentage of successful arm tackles, because you'll be able to hang on from a position that most people have zero strength in.

 

If he's an offensive player, he will certainly be harder to injure and will have better spatial awareness of where his body is, and that's also very important. I suppose he may improve his ability to hang onto the ball as well, but the superiority of GST in that area is debatable. A lineman would also benefit from better straight arm strength.

I'm sorry I misunderstood the post. I thought OP was an ex-Football player that wanted to jump into GST, but still wanted to integrate weight lifting along with GST. But he's still playing. In football you need to be heavy, so you can deal and take heavy impacts, but you also need to have explosive speed. Those barbell exercises are definitely obligatory for football condition. Just wondering, but why do linemen need straight arm strength? And how does a flat back tucked planche equate to a higher percentage of successful arm tackles? 

Joshua Naterman said:

Well, I would say that F1 is certainly very far from being gymnastics exclusive It is definitely specifically designed to get us all where we want to go in terms of GST, but many people do not realize how much GST adds to all-around athleticism I assume this has a lot to do with the fact that most people have never trained in the GB style.

 

As for your experience with other athletes, that is very, very true.  This was my experience as well.

 

They know not how limited they are, nor how easily they could become so much more than they are.

Agreed, and I mean that, in an idea world (haha), Coach's Fundamentals courses would be the core of an athletes training for quite a while, even if they weren't gymnast and had no desire to be gymnasts. Naturally there would be other stuff to add here and there, but the core program would be GB.

At my level I think it has a lot to do with trunk strength, because everyone at the club is surprised at how hard my abs are and how easily I can take very hard punches to the stomach. They are also surprised when I am able to dismount someone in a very advantageous position and/or manage to survive and escape a surprise attack from my 215 lb buddy (darn him and his surprise attacks). And I'm still only working on masterting FL/PE1 with perfect technique !! I can't imagine wrestling with someone who has mastered all the fundamentals.

Once again I am reminded about how absurdly lucky I am to have found this website and forum.  B)

Paolo said:

I'm sorry I misunderstood the post. I thought OP was an ex-Football player that wanted to jump into GST, but still wanted to integrate weight lifting along with GST. But he's still playing. In football you need to be heavy, so you can deal and take heavy impacts, but you also need to have explosive speed. Those barbell exercises are definitely obligatory for football condition. Just wondering, but why do linemen need straight arm strength? And how does a flat back tucked planche equate to a higher percentage of successful arm tackles? 

Your arms won't peel off of the runner. You will be able to hold on long enough to actually wrap up on a higher percentage of your tackles.

As for linemen, it's more for the tackles than the guards, but in all cases once someone gets outside of you (or inside, as the case may be) and is going around, you are pretty much out there with straight arms trying to hold them off. For linemen this is a minor, but potentially important advantage. Their main focus should really be on lop sau type hand drills and open hand pummeling (lineman kung fu, basically), and agility ladder drills.

It just never hurts to have one extra physical ability that gets your QB an extra .75 seconds in the pocket.

Paolo said:

I'm not denying the benefits of mobility in F1 because I'm sure it will definitely help with strengthening, protecting, and preventing injuries to joints and ligaments. I'm not entirely sure what's in F1 but as the title suggests, you will master the basics. Then F 2-4 will guide you to mastering those 7 skills - that's what the F series is all about right? Then move on to bigger and better things. 

 

I never bought into the "spatial awareness hype." So doing GST will make an athlete more coordinated? Increase shooting accuracy in basketball and crossovers? Catching a football and tackling and dodging? Kicking a soccer ball? 

 

I don't see it.

 

If the OP tries GST and like it, then he should go for it, but if the OP thinks mastering the aforementioned skills in F1 will make him a superior RB then I think he will be disappointed. 

Says the guy who stuck to straight arm training for a year, and is now behind in other areas as a result.

What you buy into is your business, but facts are facts. The more we move around through space, the better we get at knowing where we are in space. No one with any decent degree of neuroscience knowledge will dispute that.

Daniel said gymnasts, and not GST trainees, for a reason. Gymnasts have had massive amounts of tumbling, multiplane work, etc. I'm sure you won't disagree with the statement that gymnasts have developed above average spatial awareness.

Just working through the Foundation series to where you're doing all the multiplane work will definitely improve your spatial awareness significantly, and learning even simple rolls and cartwheels will complement that.

One thing that Foundation GST does extremely well is develop well-rounded joint musculatures. Typically athletes are quite unbalanced, many times literally so. Something as simple as going through the SLS progressions is going to make a massive difference for people who cannot currently do them. This develops a body that can very easily LEARN the athletic skills that these different sports require.

If you don't buy in, that means you've never experienced the shift in athleticism that comes with well-rounded GST work, and that means that you don't have well-rounded work in your routine. Given the experiences you have shared with us so far, we all know that to be a fair statement for me to make.

Therefore, I am willing to say that you do not have a well-informed opinion in this matter. Am I being unfair?

Daniel Burnham said:

The mobility in foundation is alone worth the price especially for people playing sports.  I have no Idea why college football wont focus on this as much.  It would be such a huge boost.  Especially when getting tackled and cutting on one leg.  

 

If I had had the  joint preparation I have now when I played soccer in High school it would have been a total different ball game.  I would have avoided many ankle, knee and shoulder injuries and would have performed much better. 

This is exactly why I want to get in gymnastics. Not just to improve my strength, but also my balance, mobility, and, most importantly, to help out my joints, as I have osteoarthritis (it's in my knee, but still, I want to avoid upper body injuries with calisthenics and use lifting to help my knees).

I actually tried out ring support holds the other day, and they're actually really hard. I had to basically use the straps to aid myself. Also did some lateral holds with 15 lb. DBs. Definitely interested improving my elbow health, and I could feel it working (but not hurting!).

Really want to try and get my wrist health/flexibility up, as it's been messed up for a while, so not sure if any calisthenics could help with that

Joshua Naterman said:

Your arms won't peel off of the runner. You will be able to hold on long enough to actually wrap up on a higher percentage of your tackles.

 

As for linemen, it's more for the tackles than the guards, but in all cases once someone gets outside of you (or inside, as the case may be) and is going around, you are pretty much out there with straight arms trying to hold them off. For linemen this is a minor, but potentially important advantage. Their main focus should really be on lop sau type hand drills and open hand pummeling (lineman kung fu, basically), and agility ladder drills.

 

It just never hurts to have one extra physical ability that gets your QB an extra .75 seconds in the pocket.

Considering that extra .75 in the pocket is 7.5 million for the linebackers pocket...

I definitely agree with the spatial awareness too. Knowing where you are is definitely a plus. My instructor in BJJ even said he noticed the change in my grappling from it. Even after getting swept in BJJ, I am often able to find myself landing back into an advantageous position. It would be hard to research such a claim but I definitely thing there is something going on there!

Joshua Naterman said:

Says the guy who stuck to straight arm training for a year, and is now behind in other areas as a result.

 

What you buy into is your business, but facts are facts. The more we move around through space, the better we get at knowing where we are in space. No one with any decent degree of neuroscience knowledge will dispute that.

 

Daniel said gymnasts, and not GST trainees, for a reason. Gymnasts have had massive amounts of tumbling, multiplane work, etc. I'm sure you won't disagree with the statement that gymnasts have developed above average spatial awareness.

 

Just working through the Foundation series to where you're doing all the multiplane work will definitely improve your spatial awareness significantly, and learning even simple rolls and cartwheels will complement that.

 

One thing that Foundation GST does extremely well is develop well-rounded joint musculatures. Typically athletes are quite unbalanced, many times literally so. Something as simple as going through the SLS progressions is going to make a massive difference for people who cannot currently do them. This develops a body that can very easily LEARN the athletic skills that these different sports require.

 

If you don't buy in, that means you've never experienced the shift in athleticism that comes with well-rounded GST work, and that means that you don't have well-rounded work in your routine. Given the experiences you have shared with us so far, we all know that to be a fair statement for me to make.

 

Therefore, I am willing to say that you do not have a well-informed opinion in this matter. Am I being unfair?

Yes, you are right. I apologize for my ignorance. 

I just want to point out that despite working on only SAS for a whole year, BAS was actually VERY EASY to develop. If you check the date I posted my Erb video, it is January 12, 2013 - less than 2 weeks after one year of only SAS. I can't be behind in an area I choose NOT to work on.  Let's say I set my goal to do a planche in 2 years and it's been 6 years since I set that goal, yet I'm still on an advanced tucked planche. Then it's pretty safe to say I'm behind. And I plan on posting a new video on the same thread demonstrating a full planche push up to isometric hold. I would appreciate your input. 

Alright, I think, for a while, until I become proficient at them, I'll stick with hanging leg raises and ring support holds. I want to eventually progress to other, more advanced work, but I want to take baby steps. Ring holds, despite only having done them twice now, seem to be an amazing workout, and great for my elbows. I was actually really surprised, because I actually got a good workout in my chest, the last place I'd expect to.

Was thinking of doing a routine like this, 7 days a week:

Olympic lifting to max (C+J and Snatch)

Heavy max squats

Heavy Dips and Wide-Grip Incline Neck Press (for chest)

3 sets of Bicep supersets

3 sets of Tricep supersets

Ring Holds

Headstands/Handstands against wall

Leg raises/other weighted core work

I feel as though, if you want to get good at something, you do it a lot. If I workout 7 days a week, eventually my CNS will adapt, and I'll be better off, in my opinion.