60r Mastery... worth it?

Ok... so I've been getting on really well with F1 and making reasonable progress so far. I'm aiming for the mastery requirements but was wondering if it's worth pursuing 60r mastery in the initial RC and HBP PE's?

If my shoulders felt good then I'd probably continue through F1 without questioning the best route to take but I'm aware the external rotators on my left are weak and I feel them working particularly for HBP/PE1. The front of my right shoulder is also very tight from working as a plasterer in the past and when rowing I seem to recruit my biceps over my back though this has improved since implementing Josh's shoulder stretches.

My thinking behind this would be that so many reps would help ingrain better recruitment patterns which would carry over to F2, 3 and 4. While I have the opportunity to start from the very beginning I figured it may be worth putting in the extra time to reduce setbacks in the future. While I'd like a FL or a sPL those things are not what I'm aspiring to anymore. I just want to move better and hopefully with time I'll realise those FSAS positions.

Any thoughts appreciated

Aren't the initial elements of RC & HBP 15r (x5 = 75r) and not 60r?

I think he means 5x60r.

So what you're saying is that you want to do 60r PER set insted of 15?  Basically 5 x 60r rings row feet on floor for instance.

If your intention is as a sort of rehab movement then 60r is a good number, but then you would be treating this a more of a mobility element, and it should be pretty darn easy to do for you.

Unless you are having more serious issues, I wouldn't let it get in the way of moving forward into the next elements however. This is a strength building program after all.

Ahhh, Cole post sheds a bit of light: I think I had misunderstood your question - I actually thought you were questioning the high reps on some of the exercises - sorry about that.

What you are actually asking is if it would actually be beneficial to acquire the ability to perform 5x60 reps instead of 5x15, with the goal of helping with your tight shoulder.

FredInChina said:

Ahhh, Cole post sheds a bit of light: I think I had misunderstood your question - I actually thought you were questioning the high reps on some of the exercises - sorry about that.

That`s just how I read it as well! What OP actually meant is far more interesting.

I would treat F1 as a strength training programme.  As Cole said, 60reps is a good number for mobility.

You could do a similar less intense supplementary exercise that you can manage 5*60r after your strength workout.  This way you could still progress just as quickly and gain strength while focusing on your perceived mobility deficit.

By the time you get to F2 following F1 as laid out you could have increased your proficiency in your supplementary exercise and slowly increased the difficulty of it while maintaining 5*60r to the point where the exercise has progressed into HBP/PE1.

Band assisted incline push ups or increasing the incline to the point were you can do 5*60r could work for this or perhaps using mobility bands or wall push aways with the elbows tucked.

Though I think that if you follow the programme as laid out, any strength or mobility deficits will be ironed out anyway.

Richard Hamilton said:

Ok... so I've been getting on really well with F1 and making reasonable progress so far. I'm aiming for the mastery requirements but was wondering if it's worth pursuing 60r mastery in the initial RC and HBP PE's?

If my shoulders felt good then I'd probably continue through F1 without questioning the best route to take but I'm aware the external rotators on my left are weak and I feel them working particularly for HBP/PE1. The front of my right shoulder is also very tight from working as a plasterer in the past and when rowing I seem to recruit my biceps over my back though this has improved since implementing Josh's shoulder stretches.

Any thoughts appreciated

I think that as long as you are conscientious about performing the mobility elements properly, you should notice the tightness improving steadily. The later progressions in F1 all involve similar movements, so I don't think you have much to gain by sticking with PE1 for additional time after you have mastered it. One thing you can do is use it as a warmup for the later elements to help reinforce correct recruitment patterns. 

gohei_ said:

I think he means 5x60r.

Thats right, I mean 5x60r and I was thinking about going with incline pushups and incline rows (using straps to isolate back?)

F1 has been a real wake up call in terms of mobility and I don't think I'm going to get where I need to be in one cycle to continue strength training, particularly with my tight right shoulder and lack of ext rotator strength on the left. Though I've done a lot of rotator cuff rehab I feel like I need a period of very high volume plus rehab work to get it anywhere near strong enough for HBP/PE3, PPP otherwise I think I'll be looking at problems. It's a lot better than it used to be but still needs work so it feels more stable.

I've wondered why I wasn't getting sore in the places I expected to such as triceps and ant delt on my left side when pressing... I realise now that I needed to go way back and start from the beginning because since doing that with F1 I'm getting sore in all the right places... for me. 

Since getting into the fitness thing again a couple of years ago I've been lurching from one disaster to another. I've fallen victim to researching and trying to put all the parts of the puzzle together but I'm not a fitness expert or coach and so I can't and it's been frustrating. I'm at a point now where I know my strengths and my weaknesses and using F1 is helping me address them because its designed by an expert who knows what their doing. I'm willing to put the hard work in but I need to be given some direction, I'm not at all analytical and tend to do things by feel, hence my previous job plastering and why I think I've struggled until recent months. Using the path mapped out by Coach will get me there, but I may need to veer off in another direction for a few weeks. It's been a very informative couple of years but I'm tired of trying to get my head around it all and want to do the work and stop having problems. 

I don't think there are any serious issues... I'm a fairly average bloke who's over used his right arm and needs to use the other one a bit more 

dbirchall and Hari, they are both good ideas, thank you  

Also wondering if my expectations are too high for my left side with the ext rotations? I used to do literally thousands of them over the course of a week when I was a plasterer and a lot of that was rendering with sand and cement so pretty hard going. I think thats kind of why I feel the volume route would be a good way to go. Maybe its just a question of how to implement it best.

My upper traps on my right seem to be getting a pretty good workout too... another imbalance as I used to hold whole sheets of drywall overhead with my left so thats pretty solid... 

Before getting too deep into traditional rehab, I would also recommend a session or two with a good ART therapist (if you are in the S. Calif area I know an excellent one in San Diego).  

On my own shoulder I did four months of rehab (three times a week) with only moderate improvement; yet in only 45 minutes an ART therapist essentially fixed the issue that four months of rehab had barely made a dent in.

If it's the same guy (david?), he did similar good for me in 100 minutes. Totally worth it.

There's a lot to be said for a multidisciplinary approach, and there's a lot that we just can't do on our own (in terms of rehab).

Richard Hamilton said:

(...) Since getting into the fitness thing again a couple of years ago I've been lurching from one disaster to another. I've fallen victim to researching and trying to put all the parts of the puzzle together but I'm not a fitness expert or coach and so I can't and it's been frustrating. I'm at a point now where I know my strengths and my weaknesses and using F1 is helping me address them because its designed by an expert who knows what their doing. I'm willing to put the hard work in but I need to be given some direction (...)

"When the student is ready, the teacher will show up."

You should not regret these years of learning, searching, and seemingly running after your tail Richard, for one, you learned many things about yourself, who you are and what your goals are, and second, it led you to find Coach Sommer and his BtGB resource

You now know precisely where you are on the map, and which direction to start moving towards your goals... what else do you need?

Thanks Coach and Joshua for the suggestion... I think seeing someone who can give some manual therapy would certainly help matters. It seems that ART therapists are few and far between in the UK at the moment so I may go and see a sports physio who's been recommended and see what he can do for me.

Fred... I don't regret any of it... we all have to learn one way or another. Its just a bit annoying that it's usually the hard way but nothing in life comes for free. I'll crack on and see how I go, hopefully manual therapy will help but I have a feeling 60r mastery of these PE's will be beneficial. If it doesn't build much physical strength it'll surely build some mental toughness while my mobility improves.

Richard when I lived in Bath there was an excellent sports rehab clinc up at the university sports center, I only went for a couple of sessions but they were really good. As an aside I've also found that F1 has really helped me with rehabing my shoulder

Richard Hamilton said:

Thanks Coach and Joshua for the suggestion... I think seeing someone who can give some manual therapy would certainly help matters. It seems that ART therapists are few and far between in the UK at the moment so I may go and see a sports physio who's been recommended and see what he can do for me.

Fred... I don't regret any of it... we all have to learn one way or another. Its just a bit annoying that it's usually the hard way but nothing in life comes for free. I'll crack on and see how I go, hopefully manual therapy will help but I have a feeling 60r mastery of these PE's will be beneficial. If it doesn't build much physical strength it'll surely build some mental toughness while my mobility improves.

you could also take the 60r template and divide every rep by two or by three while keeping the sets, that would give you a 30rep respectively 20rep mastery template. Then you can see if working higher volumes is worth it or not without going to  60r mastery right away and using up too much of your training time.

spinelli said:

Richard when I lived in Bath there was an excellent sports rehab clinc up at the university sports center, I only went for a couple of sessions but they were really good. As an aside I've also found that F1 has really helped me with rehabing my shoulder

Spinelli, I used to live in Bath until 5yrs ago and have a friend that's used the clinic up at the university... I've heard very good things about it but it's a way from Bournemouth so not an option on my wages at the moment sadly, I need ti find someone closer to home.

I was a bit gutted to move away from Bath but I'm happier down here on the coast

Might be worth giving them a phone call and seeing if they could recommend you somewhere closer to you? I miss Bath also (the place not the living costs though )

Good idea... I'll give them a call tomorrow and see what they say

What exactly is an ART therapy? And what can they do ?

Richard Hamilton said:

Spinelli, I used to live in Bath until 5yrs ago and have a friend that's used the clinic up at the university... I've heard very good things about it but it's a way from Bournemouth so not an option on my wages at the moment sadly, I need ti find someone closer to home.

I was a bit gutted to move away from Bath but I'm happier down here on the coast

Hey Richard, I used to live in Bournemouth for a year.  You should go to Rossmore Gymnastics Club on a Wednesday.  They do an adult session and there is a great community of trickers, cheerleaders and parkour people who go there.  The coaches are good just ask them how to learn a skill and they will show you.  I had them teach me cartwheels & rolls.

I've just found a new club here in Northwich near where I live.  It's great to meet and train with people who are also into gymnastics.

dbirchall said:

Hey Richard, I used to live in Bournemouth for a year.  You should go to Rossmore Gymnastics Club on a Wednesday.  They do an adult session and there is a great community of trickers, cheerleaders and parkour people who go there.  The coaches are good just ask them how to learn a skill and they will show you.  I had them teach me cartwheels & rolls.

 

I've just found a new club here in Northwich near where I live.  It's great to meet and train with people who are also into gymnastics.

I've been up there a few times though that was a couple of years ago now, it's a really good gym and the coaches are really helpful as you say. The problem I found was that my body is so out of whack it was hard to do anything balanced and it left me neglecting my weaknesses. I'd love to go back up there and learn some skills but my priority is finding balance with mobility and stability right now so F1 & H1 are my focus along with a lot of dog walking. The only other thing I'm seriously considering adding is some yoga in an attempt to improve flexibility.

Glad to hear you found a club up in Northwich

MrPuppeh said:

What exactly is an ART therapy? And what can they do ?

Here you go, have a look  

http://www.activerelease.com/about.asp