Fingertip Planche - Finger Strength

Hey guys

I've recently made my right wrist even worse after trying to place fingers straight backward (for some reason it hurts my wrist a lot) and since it's recovering, I don't want to hurt it again. I generally have kind of crappy wrists so I lean towards either a fingertip planche or fingers sideways, but the 90 degree position is very uncomfortable for the thumb.

Here's my form (critique is very welcome):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKxFYUsPmsU&feature=youtu.be

Just forward the video to the planches.

So my finger strength is kind of limiting my planche, I can't really lean forward as much as with fingers at 45 degrees because my fingers and (possibly) elbows collapse.

How would you approach finger strengthening? Also, how much harder is it to do a planche on fingers compared to them being 45 degrees out?

If your fingers are the limiting factor in your planche right now, then working planches will strengthen your fingers. 

If you have the finger strength and the balance, a planche isn't going to be any harder on fingers or palms. 

Finger tip push-ups and grip work.  Rope climbs are awesome for building finger strength.  As mentioned, keep working your planche and planche leans.  Your joints take much longer to adapt, so remember to take things slowly.

Because of low blood flow to the tendons of the fingers, as well as the nature of tendon strength, high volume work will be your friend. For finger strength, I like high rep fingertip pushups, towel pullups and rope climbs. I recommend the fingertip pushups in particular because they load your fingers in the same way as a fingertip planche.

Also any type of rock climbing will benefit you a lot. If you have access to a climbing wall or hangboard, spending any extending amount of time on either will get the blood flowing to your fingers. When I started climbing I saw a big increase in finger strength even after only a few weeks.

Yes, the fingers turned all the way back hand position somehow puts some stress on the wrists, but nowhere near as much as fingers forward or sideways. Have you tried fingers turned 45 degrees back from sideways? I find that one the most comfortable and has like no stress on the wrists. 

Thanks for the suggestions!

As for climbing, what are some creative ways to go around it? I can't think of something myself, but I'll definitely keep trying. I also have no climbing rope, but towels will probably do a good job too.

I've read that Coach recommends not going past 90 degrees with planche work for beginners, because of weak tendons. I don't want to injure myself at all.

As for volume, what did any of you find works best? We already have a vote for high volume. That would make sense since I haven't done any high volume work for my fingers and they're weak. That would suck though since I hate and suck at high volume training

Fingertip pushups and towel pull ups will do a lot for your fingers. I see climbing as a bonus: if you have access to it, do it. If not, don't worry about it. I would say work up to a high volume. Last semester I took a month where I would have one day a week that would consist of 100 towel pullups, and another day that consisted of 100 fingertip pushups, both done in as few sets as possible with as little rest as possible. I came out of that month will all my tendons and joints in my arms and hands feeling super strong.

Get a bucket, 15/20 pounds of rice ---> squeeze and twist the rice.

The rice work is great for warm up and recovery work, but the answer should be simple:

You need to be spending time on your finger tips, with straight fingers. Yes, it will be slow, but in the end you will get there.

Towel pull ups are an excellent additional exercise for building hand and finger strength, and so are pull ups/foot supported rows/FL rows, whatever you can do, with fingers only. I will highly suggest that you get comfortable with 40-60s dead hangs from your fingers. No part of your palm should be bearing weight. The second bone of your fingers should have it all (often the pinky is so short that only the last bone is on the bar, and that's fine. Just use the grip your hand allows.).

I would treat this as a second priority, honestly.

From what I can see, your hollow body strength is lacking. Foundation work will quickly fix that, and I think that should be your first priority.

Thanks!

Would it be a problem if I did towel stuff and low intensity fingertip pushups and holds daily? I suppose they recover slowly but I don't really know.

You'll have to find out. Very short holds, just to spend a few seconds in the position, during rest days is usually helpful, but you need to have enough self-control to actually avoid doing a real training set.

I suggest starting out with 3 days per week of real training and seeing how that goes.

this sounds extremely beneficial seeing as how finger strengthening would limit my possible injuries while practicing self defenses involving the fingers. 

so finger holds of maybe 5-10 seconds would be the goal? go for maybe 1 minute accumulated? 

All I can say is that thick towel hangs and pullups for 30-45 secs for high sets work WONDERS.

+ Sets longer holds of 20 sec of tuck planche with minimal rest and holds of 6 sec L-sits.

KeilaniG said:

this sounds extremely beneficial seeing as how finger strengthening would limit my possible injuries while practicing self defenses involving the fingers. 

 

so finger holds of maybe 5-10 seconds would be the goal? go for maybe 1 minute accumulated? 

Here's more opinion than you wanted! XD

My old shaolin teacher said (VERY gradually) minimum 5 minutes in pushup position. When you have that unbroken, count down fingers until you have 5 minutes on thumbs, then start over for handstand. This is not something to rush, plenty of classmates had injuries so I may have been lucky. Don't forget this is tendon endurance, not muscle strength-- takes longer to build.

He also said to spend twice as long as you hold stretching your hands, finger waving, etc.

For grabbing, BJJ and rope/towel pulls  is my mainstay. Supplementary to that lots of weighted staff sets. I used to like juggling little bags of lead shot, etc. Climbing is, I don't doubt, #1, although being a plumber or mason might be #0.8.

IMO finger striking is great, but in practise limited to all-out situations; much more versatile to develop ridiculous grabbing str for muscle and bone-- restraints etc

/2c

EDIT;

Where I mentioned that plenty of classmates got finger injuries, plenty, including me, did not. Being a shaolin place naturally these were people who pushed themselves a lot so I can't say for sure it was that conditioning either.

Great tips! How often did you do the 5 minute holds?

Also, when doing planche, should you rotate the elbows in? (So that the front of bicep faces forward)

I believe I did the holds every day, I was training full time at that point and there was plenty of soft training involved which went a long way to recovery. It may not be optimal, but when a Shaolin shifu says that now is conditioning time, I pretty much believe that now is conditioning time. Its not the most time-efficient way, and it will only take you so far, but it will certainly work. The holds are generally done in the bottom of the pushup position, incidentally.

The other basic finger method was 5 fingertip pushups. When you have that, remove a finger, down to thumbs. Depending on the teacher I was told to stop and build up numbers with a minute hold at the bottom after the reps at either thumbs and forefingers, or thumb, forefinger, middle finger. Again it will only take you so far, but frankly that's further than a lot of people go.

These days I have a somewhat different approach I learnt from Sifu, which I won't share because it's frankly dangerous for enthusiasts without instruction. I do also like holds on leopard fist and phoenix eye, a lot harder than you might think. Use matts or grass for that if you feel like it, and take it SLOW-- if your wrist or fingers creak or pop, you risk biting off more than you can chew. Don't injure yourself by being impatient, these will take time.

Whew, I had a lot to say today, I guess.

EDIT- For planche, rotate biceps forward. I do mine with fingers forward /out at about 45 or with fingers back at 45 on fingertips-- pretty much depending on mood.

Someone with authority will no doubt address that for sure though.

thanks for the advice, Charm #highfive 

I've been lucky enough to travel a lot and train with a lot of cool people. No sense not sharing a bit o what I've picked up along the way

Sort of related, I have a close friend who is drop-dead amazing at snake. She picked up the piano after she once she did the ba si with her teacher, to keep her hands healthy. I always thought that was a really cool idea, even if my stubby digits aren't going to be tinkling many ivories.

Initially, the fingers for a planche should be to the sides or forwards; your elbows will follow. The reason for this is that hands back (e.g elbows face the floor) puts a lot of strain on the biceps.

Charm said:

I've been lucky enough to travel a lot and train with a lot of cool people. No sense not sharing a bit o what I've picked up along the way

 

Sort of related, I have a close friend who is drop-dead amazing at snake. She picked up the piano after she once she did the ba si with her teacher, to keep her hands healthy. I always thought that was a really cool idea, even if my stubby digits aren't going to be tinkling many ivories.

aside from my obvious interest in picking up piano, that is a nice way of doing recovery. I'm gonna be heading up to Vancouver soon, i'll drop you a message(not sure how far away that is for you)

Hari_Seldon said:

Initially, the fingers for a planche should be to the sides or forwards; your elbows will follow. The reason for this is that hands back (e.g elbows face the floor) puts a lot of strain on the biceps.

Yeah, I realize that, but my wrist flexibility is horrible and all that seems to happen when I try to go further into planche leans with fingers forward is wrist pain...

Fingers at 45 degrees makes my side of the thumb get pressed down into the ground very hard, I don't think the pain is worth it. I may need to work on my thumb mobility/flexibility.

Fingertip planche will require a lot of work on finger strength I guess haha but I guess the taken away stress from wrists is worth it.

And charm, thanks for the tips! You've got some great information we could all use haha.

I've been thinking about looking into kung fu conditioning but I keep forgetting it.

Edgaron said:

Yeah, I realize that, but my wrist flexibility is horrible and all that seems to happen when I try to go further into planche leans with fingers forward is wrist pain...

 

Fingers at 45 degrees makes my side of the thumb get pressed down into the ground very hard, I don't think the pain is worth it. I may need to work on my thumb mobility/flexibility.

 

Fingertip planche will require a lot of work on finger strength I guess haha but I guess the taken away stress from wrists is worth it.

 

And charm, thanks for the tips! You've got some great information we could all use haha.

 

I've been thinking about looking into kung fu conditioning but I keep forgetting it.

That said, once I'm certified capable of teaching it, my students will be learning GST for their general conditioning.

Hari_Seldon said:

Initially, the fingers for a planche should be to the sides or forwards; your elbows will follow. The reason for this is that hands back (e.g elbows face the floor) puts a lot of strain on the biceps.

Since we've got you, do you think it's preferable to work for fingers-back?

I went through a stage of making sure my floor Lsits etc were all done with fingers back, and felt somewhat more solid in the position once my wrists adjusted. My understanding as of now has been that hand position is genuinely optional, but inner elbows should be pointed forward. Any thoughts?

Edgaron said:

Yeah, I realize that, but my wrist flexibility is horrible and all that seems to happen when I try to go further into planche leans with fingers forward is wrist pain...

 

Fingers at 45 degrees makes my side of the thumb get pressed down into the ground very hard, I don't think the pain is worth it. I may need to work on my thumb mobility/flexibility.

 

Fingertip planche will require a lot of work on finger strength I guess haha but I guess the taken away stress from wrists is worth it.

 

And charm, thanks for the tips! You've got some great information we could all use haha.

 

I've been thinking about looking into kung fu conditioning but I keep forgetting it.

remember, it depends on the teacher. I had one teacher tell me 1/4 range of motion squats were the best for developing crazy leg strength for kicking power...#crickets 

I showed him I could pistol and he hadn't ever seen that physically performed infront of him besides watching videos on youtube or monks doing demonstrations. 

tread carefully on who promises what, unless they can put their money where their mouth is

Edit: the same teacher does 10 "fingertip" pushups everyday to strenghten his fingers, when in reality he does something similar to first knuckle position but with the fingers sprawled out. I pray I can be appointed physical instructor for the black belts, because most of these guys are suffering from a serious cases of bursitis, tendonitis and overall lack of physical preparation knowledge outside of "try to whack me, ill block and try to whack you back." syndrome, even though they're excellent fighters. I wish my GM was still giving private classes. #daydream

Charm said:

Since we've got you, do you think it's preferable to work for fingers-back?

I went through a stage of making sure my floor Lsits etc were all done with fingers back, and felt somewhat more solid in the position once my wrists adjusted. My understanding as of now has been that hand position is genuinely optional, but inner elbows should be pointed forward. Any thoughts?

It depends on where in your training you are and what you're training for. If you're just trying to learn a planche, there's little reason to do fingers-back. For training a cross, planche with fingers back is a good preparatory exercise (provided that you've done enough preparatory work to safely work a fingers-back planche), because it puts a similar but less intense strain on the elbows.

It might also be slightly easier in terms of required prime-mover strength, because having your hand behind your wrist instead of in front of your wrist will slightly increase the angle between your arms and your torso.