Strength In Excess Of Mobility

As I suspected, I have found that my strength is in far excess of my mobility in terms of mastery. The official recommendation is that you should continue to work on the combined preparatory strength element while also doing the mobility. I am wondering what the rationale behind this recommendation is. Especially for some elements, like the incline pushup+german arm swing, I feel like the time spent on the paired strength element could be better spent on other strength or mobilty work. 

My current thinking is that, since there are many areas where my strength is far in excess of my mobility, I could work all of those mobility elements together at the beginning of my workout as a warmup. Is there anything seriously wrong with this plan? Is it "too much" mobility at once? Does pairing the mobility with the strength procure some benefit of which I am not aware? 

I'm happy to do the strength alongside the mobility if that is better, but I am curious as to why it should be done that way. 

It is a matter of optimal developmental balance and injury prevention. Depending on your specific variance between strength and mobility continuing to work strength can inhibit the rate at which you gain mobility. So the questions becomes how bad is the imbalance and how difficult are the mobility movements for you.

This can be highly individual in nature.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the explanation.

The variance between my strength and mobility is high: in those areas where I have trouble, it is the first few mobility exercises where I've been having issues, but my level of strength is definitely well beyond F1 in those same areas. Luckily my mobility deficiency is not that severe: I can complete the exercises with full ROM, but this causes either creaking in the joints or a stretching feeling in the muscles, depending on the exercise. While it is not painful, I take this creaking/stretching as a sign that more work is needed before I consider myself to have mastered the movement.

Here's a full list of what I've found so far in terms of mobility issues. I haven't gone through every F1 exercise yet so I can't say for sure what 'level' my strength is at. Given what I know about my own strength, I have no doubt I will be able to do mastery sets of all the Foundation 1 exercises in MN, SLS, HBP, and sPL without difficulty. For FL, RC, and SL, I may need to spend some time building endurance to pass the higher level exercises, but those are areas where my mobility is fine. 

Straddle planche: I had difficulty with the swivel hips (sPL/PE1>iM). I can get both knees to the floor while keeping my butt on the floor, but it definitely feels like a stretch. In terms of strength level, I've only tested myself on the first progression so far. I can hold a 8s straddle planche on rings, or press to handstand after a 2 second hold, so I don't foresee having any trouble passing the strength all the way up to PE6. 

Manna: Again, full ROM, but some creaking. This time in the stiff-leg windmill (MN/PE1>iM). In terms of strength, I've again only tested myself on the first level so far. But I can do at least 15-20 full ROM leg-lifts (actually it's been a while since I did any without weight, but that's how many I was doing at a time before I switched to weighted leg lifts, so the actual number may be more). So a 5x5 set of negatives (MN/PE6) will not be difficult. 

Single Leg Squat: skiers (IM1) are fine. Twisting squats (IM2) are fine. The inside squat I again have a little trouble with; it feels like a stretch at full ROM. I did a side-to-side squat (SLS/PE3) mastery set without any trouble, and I don't foresee having any issues with doing a mastery set of SLS/4 or SLS/5 either.

Hollow Back Press: The German Arm swing, and the Xiaopeng forwards and backwards both make my shoulders creak when performed at full ROM. I did a mastery set of HBP/PE3 without any trouble, other than the aforementioned creaking during mobility. I can do a lot of dips so I don't foresee having any issues with HBP/PE4-6. I have done 10 HBP in a row in the past. 

Rope Climb: I haven't done any of these yet. I have reasonable lat flexibility so I don't think the mobility elements here will be a problem. 

Front Lever: no mobility problems so far.

Side Lever: no mobility issues so far. Ironically I think this is where my strength is weakest, as I don't much to train my back strength other than ring and high bar swings. 

Do you have any recommendations, given this information? If you think it's best to reserve judgement until I've finished self-assesment for the rest of F1, I can post here again when I've finished with that. If you think any other information would be helpful, I'm happy to provide it. 

Where your deficits are very large I would back off on the strength work for a week, maybe two and focus on the mobility in those areas. Maintain the strength just do not push it overly much while seeing if the mobility shows some improvement. It might not be much but the point is if there is any at all right now.

As Nic mentioned, if your mobility is far behind your strength then increasing mobility needs to be your primary focus until this mobility deficit is resolved.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Thank you both for the advice. I will back off the strength to focus on mobility.

Coach Sommer said:

As Nic mentioned, if your mobility is far behind your strength then increasing mobility needs to be your primary focus until this mobility deficit is resolved.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I'm am curious about this too, especially in regards to the SLS progressions.  Like Hari, I have tested and passed up to PE4 on legs right now (and suspect I'll be able to pass the last upcoming progressions as well) but have found the IM components to be 'hard' in the sense that they simply add volume to the leg workout.  The SLS IM components in particular seem more like additional strength work than just strict mobility work to me.  I also feel a good stretch with the inside squat.

I guess my question is what actually constitutes mastery when it comes to the mobility components?  I was under the impression that if you could successfully complete the 5xreps/time, then you are good to go...  Aren't the mobility components supposed to feel like a stretch?

My intuition is that I should be avoiding movements which cause my joints to make weird noises, but I figured I should check: is it more productive to work the mobility exercises with a range of motion where I feel no creaking or popping or stretching, or to work them with full ROM? 

You need to build up to full ROM.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Hari_Seldon said:

My intuition is that I should be avoiding movements which cause my joints to make weird noises, but I figured I should check: is it more productive to work the mobility exercises with a range of motion where I feel no creaking or popping or stretching, or to work them with full ROM? 

Some creaking and popping can be considered normal. If there is any pain of discomfort then stop. You went too far. Work to the tension not through it. As Coach stated your goal is to slowly build ROM until you achieve the full range.

Coach Sommer said:

You need to build up to full ROM.

Noted. Thanks again.

Nic Branson said:

Some creaking and popping can be considered normal. If there is any pain of discomfort then stop. You went to far. Work to the tension not through it. As Coach stated your goal is to slowly build ROM until you achieve the full range.

So pain is bad. A little bit of creaking and popping is ok. How do I tell if the creaking and popping is at a level that is not OK? 

Dull pain = fatigue.  Sharp pain = injury.  The pain of fatigue begins to fade away almost immediately on cessation of an exercise.  The pain of injury will continue to increase in intensity despite the cessation of the exercise.

The only way to know to know the difference between the two is through experience.  Unfortunately the only way to gain that experience is by making bad decisions and working through the consequences.  You can help to minimize these consequences by only gradually increasing ROM and listening carefully to your body.  

No Pain, No Gain is for idiots.  In the long run, your GST will be far more productive by following the mottoes of No Brain, No Gain and Make Haste Slowly.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

Dull pain = fatigue.  Sharp pain = injury.  The pain of fatigue begins to fade away almost immediately on cessation of an exercise.  The pain of injury will continue to increase in intensity despite the cessation of the exercise.

Ah, that I understand very well. 

Coach Sommer said:

The only way to know to know the difference between the two is through experience.  Unfortunately the only way to gain that experience is by making bad decisions and working through the consequences.  You can help to minimize these consequences by only gradually increasing ROM and listening carefully to your body.  

Oh, good. I've made lots of bad decisions in the past     . I will take care to avoid any sharp pains, and be sure to increase ROM only when my body feels like it is ok with the increased movement.

At the risk of sounding repetitive, thanks again for all the help 

Well that didn't take long. I've now got perfect ROM in german arm swings, windmills and both Xiapengs. There's a little popping (much less than before), but no pain and no stretching sensation. Swivel hips are much better but I still can't bring my knees to the floor. I won't be able to get full ROM there until I've had some time to stretch out my IT band.

Bit of time and it sorts itself out as long as you don't force it or inhibit it.

Nice work!

As someone whose hips have been so tight all my life that I couldn't comfortably sit cross-legged even in kindergarten, I'd prefer entry-level in strength. That at least is proven to be fixable. (I spent years stretching regularly for martial arts without much improvement in hip flexibility; really hoping F! will be effective in fixing that.)

adara9 said:

As someone whose hips have been so tight all my life that I couldn't comfortably sit cross-legged even in kindergarten, I'd prefer entry-level in strength. That at least is proven to be fixable. (I spent years stretching regularly for martial arts without much improvement in hip flexibility; really hoping F! will be effective in fixing that.)

Anyone can improve flexibility to a great deal. The problem is that most people end up being taught poor technique. What methods do you use for stretching? 

Heh, I've been browsing the forum since posting, and have just ordered Stretching & Flexibility, so I'm holding out a little more hope already. Currently, I have pretty good flexibility in my arms and shoulders, which has been improved through stretching. It's mostly my hips, back, and legs that have been very slow to improve, though I've noticed weight loss has helped a fair amount on its own.

To answer your question, I haven't done much lately, as I had an emergency c-section a year ago that is only just now healing enough to allow regular exercise (I can even climb up to about 20 stairs in a day without incision pain the next morning!). Back then, the methods were pretty basic: 3 times a week, the sensei would lead us through a quick warm up, then a stretching routine with 20s holds of various stretches. The hip- & leg-related ones that I remember were: standing side splits, to a sitting position, then reaching forward (pancake, I think), then to each side over the legs, and then legs in to the butterfly. My kicks were as high as I cared about reaching, but it seemed obvious that I should be able to stretch deeper. (I was in high school at the time, and I was less flexible than folks who had 3 decades on me.)

adara9 said:

To answer your question, I haven't done much lately, as I had an emergency c-section a year ago that is only just now healing enough to allow regular exercise (I can even climb up to about 20 stairs in a day without incision pain the next morning!). Back then, the methods were pretty basic: 3 times a week, the sensei would lead us through a quick warm up, then a stretching routine with 20s holds of various stretches. The hip- & leg-related ones that I remember were: standing side splits, to a sitting position, then reaching forward (pancake, I think), then to each side over the legs, and then legs in to the butterfly. My kicks were as high as I cared about reaching, but it seemed obvious that I should be able to stretch deeper. (I was in high school at the time, and I was less flexible than folks who had 3 decades on me.)

The hips and legs are articulated by larger muscles than the shoulders, and thus need longer stretches to achieve the same effect. So it makes sense that you were having difficulty improving with just 20s holds. My leg flexibility all came from really long static stretching (1-3 minute holds). I think you'll find S&F to be very helpful. The contract-release technique it teaches is extremely effective, and all of Kit's stretching exercises are very good.