Relation Between Active And Passive Flexibility

hi to everyone, i've always thought that a great active flexibility needs to be paired with great passive flexibility. or better before start with serious active flexibility in muscles A i need a good rom of passive flexibility in the antagonist muscles B. 

the problem is valid as for skills like manna where is necessary a great active and passive flexibility?

i'm talking about pike compression and of course passive flexibility to elongate the lats.

maybe the question is stupid...do you think  that if i can elongate passively my lats (in exercise like german hang stretch) over the rom wich is required for manna...can i develop the active flexibility over this range in order to do manna? or there is a point where passive stretch is not enough for active flex development and there are other factors?

thanks for your time

You need to combine both active and passive flexibility exercises. Passive flexibility places an upper limit on your active flexibility, but doesn't help much beyond that. If you want to increase your range of motion in a specific area you need to perform exercises where you actively move towards the edge of your ROM. 

The answer to your specific question is both yes and no. You will need a good german hang stretch in order to do a manna, but you'll also have to do active shoulder-extension work in order to develop a manna. 

One use for passive flexibility is increase your potential for active flexibility. I believe. One could develop a certain level of passive flexibility first, and then chase that passive flexibility with the ability to pull into that range of motion by muscular action (active flexibility). But that is only one way.

In your case, once you have achieved the required shoulder girdle and pelvic/hamstring range of motion (by whatever means) you are going to have to build the end range strength (active flexibility) to perform the movement.

Passive flexibility is simply having tissues that can elongate to whatever length a position requires. Active flexibility means you need to have the strength to get there with muscular effort, which is a lot more difficult. That's why ballet dancers have such huge upper thighs: It takes a lot of muscle to lift a single leg all the way above shoulder level and hold it there without any assistance from your hands, and they spend several years developing that ability. You have to work against the passive tension of the antagonistic muscles as well as the ligaments of the hip, and as men we are inherently less mobile in the hips, on average, compared to women. We have more muscle to work against, and a different bone structure, and our legs tend to be longer because, on average, men are just larger than women.

Of course, both genders spend a long time working towards that kind of active flexibility. The younger you are, the easier it is to develop this.

The german hang stretches the pecs, not the lats. Lat flexibility will never be an issue in the Manna, but close grip german hangs are certainly a good way to develop the flexibility you need (and then some) for the manna. To actually USE it, you'll need to develop active shoulder extension strength. To do that, take dumbbells or a weighted bar (should probably start with a broom handle or PVC pipe), and bend to about 30 degrees at the hips so that you're inclined forward with your arms pointing at your toes (dumbbells) or with the bar resting on your hips with straight arms. Now, lift the weight backwards behind you while keeping your hands as close together as you comfortably can.

As you get stronger, you can just hang ankle weights off of the pipe, or use heavier dumbbells. This is not the same as doing reverse planche leans, but can definitely be helpful for developing the muscles. The leans, which Dillon and I tend to think of as Victorian leans, are just starting in reverse plank and then inching the hands towards the hips. This is quite difficult, but will pay off in the long run.

Joshua Naterman said:

Passive flexibility is simply having tissues that can elongate to whatever length a position requires. Active flexibility means you need to have the strength to get there with muscular effort, which is a lot more difficult. That's why ballet dancers have such huge upper thighs: It takes a lot of muscle to lift a single leg all the way above shoulder level and hold it there without any assistance from your hands, and they spend several years developing that ability. You have to work against the passive tension of the antagonistic muscles as well as the ligaments of the hip, and as men we are inherently less mobile in the hips, on average, compared to women. We have more muscle to work against, and a different bone structure, and our legs tend to be longer because, on average, men are just larger than women.

Of course, both genders spend a long time working towards that kind of active flexibility. The younger you are, the easier it is to develop this.

 

The german hang stretches the pecs, not the lats. Lat flexibility will never be an issue in the Manna, but close grip german hangs are certainly a good way to develop the flexibility you need (and then some) for the manna. To actually USE it, you'll need to develop active shoulder extension strength. To do that, take dumbbells or a weighted bar (should probably start with a broom handle or PVC pipe), and bend to about 30 degrees at the hips so that you're inclined forward with your arms pointing at your toes (dumbbells) or with the bar resting on your hips with straight arms. Now, lift the weight backwards behind you while keeping your hands as close together as you comfortably can.

 

As you get stronger, you can just hang ankle weights off of the pipe, or use heavier dumbbells. This is not the same as doing reverse planche leans, but can definitely be helpful for developing the muscles. The leans, which Dillon and I tend to think of as Victorian leans, are just starting in reverse plank and then inching the hands towards the hips. This is quite difficult, but will pay off in the long run.

I keep hearing about these reverse planche leans. are they a preparatory exercise to be paired with planche leans to iron out imbalances? or do they serve a specific purpose that im still not quite getting?

What was the subject of my last post?

sorry for the wrong term i've used, i was using german hang stretch refferring to close grip GH stretch.

the exercises you told to me is great, i seen some increment in the "pushing forward" movement of some skills as flares and circles, the distance of hand must be the same (on the pipe) of an ideal manna position?

alex87 said:

sorry for the wrong term i've used, i was using german hang stretch refferring to close grip GH stretch.

the exercises you told to me is great, i seen some increment in the "pushing forward" movement of some skills as flares and circles, the distance of hand must be the same (on the pipe) of an ideal manna position?

Eventually, but at first that might be uncomfortable. It's always whatever the best you've got at the time happens to be! My right elbow bothers me a bit when I try this with the same width that I used to use comfortably two years ago, so I just go a little wider and adjust my hand and elbow position slightly.

do you think is normal that after this type of manna stretch (the days after) i feell myself very very very sore in the shoulders? really sometime i can't move it completely the next days...only when i try to stretch in this position with pnf tecnique..

If it's new to you, then it makes sense that your shoulders will get sore. Is it soreness in the muscles or does it feel like the joint itself?

i'm not new to that, but when pnf is involved expecially the rigth shoulders...damn i feel less strength, but not joints problem...my rigth shoulders is the dominant in some breakdance movements as handjumps, airchair jumps and other thingg...the muscles are little bit tight maybe the reason is this! my shoulders returns to normality after a couples of days...but sometime is simply impossible to train. 

this happens if i use my bodyweigth as a counter resistance for pnf. if i do the version sitting on the floor usually i don't have any problem

the pain in movements where the arms are flexed in the back as manna position  is gone at 70%...but some pain appears in wide grip pullup and in all bent arm press movements! i think there is something wrong tin the anterior and middle deltoid. i did test for rotator cuff injury, but all seems to be negative for me. what can be?

did you ever experienced this sensation after toooooo much hard work in manna stretching?