Newbie Question On Nutrition

Hey Guys

My holidays just started and with it i want to fix my eating habits !

I already read a lot of posts on this forum about nutrition, but now i´m confused.

Special i got a lot of questions about protein intake.

Most of the threads said, the maximum of protein per hour is 10 g, but this thread  (https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/4278-perfect-pre-mid-and-post-workout-nutrition/)

points out that you should get a lot more protein per hour.

It is okay to get more protein per hour as 10g or its just a special case, because its in the pre/post workout window ?

And my next question is how much calories(carbs/fats) i should get to gain weight ( muscles)?

My weight is 62 kg & i´m 187 cm tall.

Sincerely Philipp

English is not my native language, but i still hope you get my point

Thanks to everyone  

The number I use for protein is 2.2g per kg. multiply this by your weight and divide by 24. That's about how much protein you are able to synthesize in an hour. They way you consume it is up to you. Also be sure to get 20 grams directly after workout. Spread the rest out over the day.

It would be impossible for us to tell you how much to eat without knowing BMR you need to calculate this. Then eat a surplus for building muscle and a deficit for loosing fat. Of course timing your food correctly and eating healthier things will help this happen faster and lead to better performance. Read through the nutrition section. There is a lot of good info there.

Daniel Burnham said:

The number I use for protein is 2.2g per kg. multiply this by your weight and divide by 24. That's about how much protein you are able to synthesize in an hour. They way you consume it is up to you. Also be sure to get 20 grams directly after workout. Spread the rest out over the day.

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

Its just a rough estimate of how your body is able to use protein.  Getting more protein than you need doesn't really help unless you are using it as a source of ATP, which over a long period of time may cause kidney damage.  The estimation above is assuming you are close to energy balance meaning that you are able to fuel the production using carbs or fats and not using protein itself.  In my experience taking carbs with protein tends to make the dose more effective, and this is something that Josh has been touting for quite a while now.

The body isn't doesn't work in total values taking all your protein at one point of the day would not allow as much synthesis unless it was somehow modulated by the other food you ate with it.  This is basically why fiber in meals will allow you to eat less meals a day while maintaining a similar balance as someone who eats more often with less fiber.

I personally like the alcohol metaphor.  Compare drinking 5 drinks at one time to them drinking it over the course of the day.  Your body will process it differently.  Don't actually try this but just imagine what the difference is.  Of course the metabolism of alcohol is way different than protein synthesis but you get the idea.

For more reading on protein synthesis; this had some good info though it doesn't really provide rates.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/557636_1

Hi Phil

When I started eating protein, I was probably getting about 50 grams on a good day, which I found out was a bit low. Recommendations varied between twice the amount and five times the amount I was getting. I became a protein freak. I ate chicken and quorn burgers and fish and milk and eggs and, of course, protein powder. I've just started on the protein powder again after a long lay-off of eating pretty much nothing, but now I'm down to 60kg, I want to build more strength. I'll probably be on less than 100g protein per day, for a 60kg bodyweight. I've taken more and less, and can't say I noticed the difference. I only have powder after a workout and it is mixed 1:1 by weight with glucose, also some salt or a saltstick tab, and some cinnamon which I read helps metabolise protein - it may or may not, but it makes it taste less gloopy.

My goals may be different from yours as I'm after lightness and strength for rock climbing, but if you want to gain muscle, train to failure and glug 20g protein and glucose afterwards. There is an optimal configuration of 4:1 glucose:protein in a 6% solution. This means 1 litre of water (1000g) will contain 60g glucose and 15g of protein. For 20 g of protein, you would need 80g of glucose and 1250ml or grams of water. I am less than optimal in that my water intake is pitifully low according to current thinking, but I'm happy thinking differently. If I drank that much water with that much glucose, I wouldn't feel very optimal. It is also 400 calories, which I consider quite a lot, but probably what I would use in 90 mins bodyweight training or climbing, or less than an hour running.

Daniel Burnham said:

Its just a rough estimate of how your body is able to use protein.  Getting more protein than you need doesn't really help unless you are using it as a source of ATP, which over a long period of time may cause kidney damage.  The estimation above is assuming you are close to energy balance meaning that you are able to fuel the production using carbs or fats and not using protein itself.  In my experience taking carbs with protein tends to make the dose more effective, and this is something that Josh has been touting for quite a while now.

 

The body isn't doesn't work in total values taking all your protein at one point of the day would not allow as much synthesis unless it was somehow modulated by the other food you ate with it.  This is basically why fiber in meals will allow you to eat less meals a day while maintaining a similar balance as someone who eats more often with less fiber.

 

I personally like the alcohol metaphor.  Compare drinking 5 drinks at one time to them drinking it over the course of the day.  Your body will process it differently.  Don't actually try this but just imagine what the difference is.  Of course the metabolism of alcohol is way different than protein synthesis but you get the idea.

 

For more reading on protein synthesis; this had some good info though it doesn't really provide rates.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/557636_1

I meant in particular the "That's about how much protein you are able to synthesize in an hour part - it seems a strangely specific thing to say. Where have you read that protein synthesis occurs at around 0.1g per kg of bodyweight per hour? Is that gross or net? Must be the former because if net it would imply 6kg of new protein synthesised per month.

emos said:

I meant in particular the "That's about how much protein you are able to synthesize in an hour part - it seems a strangely specific thing to say. Where have you read that protein synthesis occurs at around 0.1g per kg of bodyweight per hour? Is that gross or net? Must be the former because if net it would imply 6kg of new protein synthesised per month.

Its not an exact amount its an averaged amount calculated based on protein uptake in the course of a day.  I consider that number maximal and most people would not be able to reach that especially since building muscle uses quite a bit of energy.  Ill try to find a source for an approximate per hour synthesis rate.  The information I posted is something that Josh has mentioned.  The 2.2g per kg is a fairly common number for the amount in a day.  To get a closer number I would think we would have to find the amino acid uptake amounts and then figure out the amino acid content of the protein and make calculations based on that.  

The take home is that you should spread protein and that getting more than you need isn't really beneficial as long as your energy balance is correct for your goals.

emos said:

I meant in particular the "That's about how much protein you are able to synthesize in an hour part - it seems a strangely specific thing to say. Where have you read that protein synthesis occurs at around 0.1g per kg of bodyweight per hour? Is that gross or net? Must be the former because if net it would imply 6kg of new protein synthesised per month.

You aren't considering the fact that we are losing quite a bit of protein per month as well, and it's not a huge amount less than the protein synthesized. The ratio depends on both nutrition and exercise, and I think that if you read more on this subject you will understand what i mean. A physiology textbook is a good place to start.

That's why gains happen slowly in non-drugged athletes.

Phil: My current understanding is that protein uptake from the small intestine into the blood does not change after the workout, but I do not know that for sure. What DOES change is how our bodies respond to the protein that we absorb. You want an initial large pulse of 30g, because this is what has been shown to maximize protein synthesis. You also want a large pulse of carbs, perhaps up to 120g if you performed an extreme amount of work, because this spikes your insulin (which is harder to do after exercise) and the spike prevents muscle protein breakdown.

Less breakdown + more synthesis = better results.

Hey

Thanks for all answers =)

I will follow your tips and  try how it works  

Daniel Burnham said:

Its not an exact amount its an averaged amount calculated based on protein uptake in the course of a day.  I consider that number maximal and most people would not be able to reach that especially since building muscle uses quite a bit of energy.  Ill try to find a source for an approximate per hour synthesis rate.  The information I posted is something that Josh has mentioned.  The 2.2g per kg is a fairly common number for the amount in a day.  To get a closer number I would think we would have to find the amino acid uptake amounts and then figure out the amino acid content of the protein and make calculations based on that.  

 

The take home is that you should spread protein and that getting more than you need isn't really beneficial as long as your energy balance is correct for your goals.

I'd be interested to see some sources, yes - if you can remember where you heard it. Don't go out of your way to dig stuff up, I could look into it myself if I actually cared enough, but those days are behind me - thank goodness!

I know that 2.2g/kg-bw (or, originally 1g/lb-bw) is often recommended as a "good" amount to eat per day, but I don't know whether that was once basically just plucked out of thin air or actually based on some figures for a maximum gross protein synthesis.

Joshua Naterman said:

You aren't considering the fact that we are losing quite a bit of protein per month as well, and it's not a huge amount less than the protein synthesized. The ratio depends on both nutrition and exercise, and I think that if you read more on this subject you will understand what i mean. A physiology textbook is a good place to start.

I did indeed consider that; see the underlined part:

"Where have you read that protein synthesis occurs at around 0.1g per kg of bodyweight per hour? Is that gross or net? Must be the former because if net it would imply 6kg of new protein synthesised per month."

Rest assured that it's a simple enough concept for even me to understand!

The basic RDA for protein is .8g/kg. The measurement isn't based on specifically muscle protein synthesis rate which is very difficult to measure. It's based on what it takes to maintain nitrogen balance. That encompasses protein intake, body protein turnover (recycling) and loss through sweat, urine & feces.

The consensus is that athletic individuals should get more, varying from 1.2g/kg for endurance athletes to 1.8g/kg for strength athletes. A general rule of thumb that bodybuilders use is 1 gram per pound (2.2g/kg) probably because it avoids multiplying fractions. Eating somewhat more per pound may have benefits in terms of feelings of fullness when on a diet and in general but there isn't any evidence that it improves results under normal conditions.

Spreading it out has benefits but normal meals of 30-50g protein will be absorbed without waste. The stomach releases it gradually and the intestine can slow down to handle larger meals.

Not to confuse the OP - for GB purposes as this works. If you do this you'll be ahead of the majority elsewhere that doesn't realize it matters. A lot more could be said and minutia debated but you'll never know your specific equation except by your behavior and results, starting with the above recommendations.