Slowly Starting To Lose Motivation After Some Unfortunate Reading.

Hey everyone, I know this is going to sound like a pity post, but I need to get this off my chest just because it's really bothering me, and I'm hoping somebody can help me reconsider despite how stupid this is probably going to all sound.

So recently I've been pretty "research-happy" as you could maybe call it; particulary on things like physical development, genetics, etc. and had the "misfortune" of running across the web version of Weston A. Price's "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" which I briefly skimmed through just enough to get the basic idea of what his findings entail, that being nutrition is ESSENTIAL for longevity of life and overall well-being, and that facial development is also impacted by this in the earlier stages of life, primarily while still in the mother's womb and the first few years afterwards.

I guess what I'm driving at is that I feel slightly depressed now after absorbing this information because what he's pretty much implying is that people with crooked teeth are underdeveloped, a "deformed mutant", if you will. With this said, you can pretty much guess why this is bugging me so much; I had to wear braces from middle school up until early into high school, along with all the other magical appliances prior to that (upper palate expander, power chain(s), rubber bands, etc.) due to having overcrowded teeth and baby teeth that fell out really late/too early. And what really bothers me is what I'm left with: only 24 adult teeth due to my orthodontist cutting out my 4 bicuspids (or at least that's what I believe they were) and all 4 wisdom teeth (which is a scam I've read because they apparently don't anywhere near the amount of force to cause your teeth to shift and I had room for them anyway).

So knowing all this, I'm really starting to get into the temptation of binging on whatever because all I can think about is "AARGGHHHH WHAT'S THE POINT WHEN I CAN NEVER REACH MY POTENTIAL LIKE SOME GUY IN AFRICA OR NEW ZEALAND WHO HAPPILY HAS ALL 32 TEETH BECAUSE WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE POOR NUTRITION AFFECTED IN MY GROWTH", although it sounds pretty damn redundant to be self-conscious over to me now that I'm sitting here typing this.

So anyone have anything that can maybe break me out of the darkness and make me change my thinking? Again, I don't want anyone to sugar-coat this, I just felt like I had to get this off my mind.

Hi Brad.

I don't know you well enough to say much, but I will tell you one thing. There is someone out there with perfectly straight teeth. There is someone out there who is naturally athletic, lean, and handsome. There is always someone like that.

The question is, why should you care? You and I don't have the best genetics, but you know full well that we don't need to. Right? We're not mutants because we're not perfect! We're humans, man. Everyone, even the person with all those great genetics who seems to have everything, has their problems. Everyone. Without exception.

Here's the thing, Brad. You can't give up. You can't. Because if you don't solve your problems, no one will. You've got to do it. We can help, believe me we'll try, but in the end it's you who makes the choice and takes action. You feel frustrated because you don't think anything you do will make a difference. I know exactly what that feels like. I've been struggling with skin conditions for years and just now getting it under control. Believe me when I say I know what it's like to look back over so many failed attempts at trying to just look normal and realizing that I still have all the problems I had a year ago. Bad genetics, bad luck, whatever. It doesn't matter, man. Who do you think has the power to change EVERYTHING about you that you dislike? You.

The sooner you start, the sooner everything can change.

Here is a very applicable quote from Dan John:

"Commit this to memory: It is your parents' fault.

There. I said it. Something that every daytime talk show blathers about each afternoon is finally true. Yes, blame your folks.

You're hamstrung by your genetic capabilities. I have a friend who played for the Utah Jazz and stands 7’4". His wife is 6’2." Now, they have three children. Do the math: will their children have a leg up (more like two feet) on you in basketball? Yes, because they will be taller than you!

The problem with genetics is this: exactly what have you been dealt in the gene pool crap shoot? You can’t find out if all you do is bench press and curl! You may be standing on the finest legs since Tom Platz or Cory Everson, but if you don’t ever get off the pec deck, you'll never find out the truth.

I've always wondered if I could have been an Olympic champion in kayak, fencing or team handball. Without any exposure to these events, is it possible that I was a natural in saber? Once again, I can blame my parents for not exposing me to each and every athletic competition the world has to offer. I could've been the best cow chip tosser in world history.

Now, shake your hand at the universe and blame everything else in your blame pantheon. Do a good job; don’t forget your third grade teacher either.

Done? Good. Now, get back to work and forget about all of this because there's nothing, I mean nothing that can be done about it! You can stop blaming your parents now and get back to the workout."

Oh and as for Mr.Prices theory on teeth and nutrition, I grew up in Soviet Russia I didn't even know that there were other fruit besides bananas and very rarely apples until the age of 8. And vegetables? weren't potatoes vegetables. While my parents would sacrifice their meals and their portions so that I could eat better, my meals were far from "nutritionally sound". Guess what, I have perfectly straight teeth and was never given anything by a dentist for them.

I had a slight crossbite and wore braces + that jaw spreader thing to fix it.

We all have limits, and we can either cry about it or try to find out exactly what they are by developing ourselves into the finest athlete, scientist, speed eater, thumb wrestler, internet stripper, or bus driver (or whatever else you happen to get into) possible.

We will always be better off by pushing our boundaries than by accepting that they are out there somewhere and giving up the chance to find them and see about stretching them out a bit.

My two cents: I had the same exact problem as you, big teeth, overcrowded mouth, had several removed AND filed down. Wore braces for over three years, am still wearing a permanent retainer...and I never once thought of myself as 'genetically deficient' or worse off athletically because of this. I don't care what any scientific article says, never did. With all my oral problems and what I consider my real issues (super ectomorphic, incredibly fast muscle burning metabolism, a naturally low muscle mass and annoyingly long arms to name a few) I've worked incredibly hard to become the type of athlete I want to be. And I've come a long way. Get to work man! You've got nothing to lose if you try your best every day instead of worrying over someone telling you that your crooked teeth Are a sign that you're less well off than others. Excuses are what keep people from reaching the top. And at this point, you don't know how far you can get.

Wow, I appreciate the comments, guys.

Honestly, I wouldn't say my nutrition as a child was "horrible", but I really can't say it was "great", either. My diet mostly consisted of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on white bread, chicken breast and white rice with teriyaki sauce, meat/ground beef, lots of fruit (bananas, apples, oranges, etc.) but not many vegetables other than carrots and celery, and the other occasional junk food and soda most American children consume. At the time, I was also unathletic, although I was a pretty good runner and had ALOT of energy despite my nose constantly being stuffed and making it hard to breath through my nose which made me breath through my mouth at times, and yet I still ended up with an un-narrow face as a kid. Around 5th/6th grade, I was "diagnosed" with ADHD because my teachers couldn't control me and I didn't pay attention in class, so of course they immediately got me on the meds (ritalin) and my parents complied. What followed for the next year or so was pretty haunting as I became almost fully anorexic due to the prescription pills taking away my appetite, and making breathing harder. Eventually, my family saw the effects of this and got me off the junk, and I started to eat more, but bloated up for the next 2-3 years through puberty. When I remember this period in my life, I can't help but feel like it may have something to do with my oral dilemma.

I have skin problems which no doctor I have been to has figured out yet.... I cant drink alcohol because my skin loses its elacticity, goes hard and cracks open so i bleed from my hands just from opening them.  My front teeth have  a massive gap in them and they are quite small teeth.  My wrists are ruined so i cant bend them and put pressure on them.  my left leg is much longer than right causing my hips to tilt and my back to have all sorts of problems.  Everyone has something or many things even those with great nutrition and perfect living conditions as a child.  Nobody is perfect.  some people may be more gifted than you at certain things and maybe you are more gifted than them in something else and even if they are more gifted it doesnt mean that you cant surpass them!  if you are more determined and push yourself through these mental barriers you have of what you think things are like and actually try to see what could things could be like then I am sure you will surprise yourself and easily achieve things far beyond the average.  My friend was just naturally better at football (soccer)  than I am but he never played better than me because i put in more time and effort and he was stuck in this mind set of being naturally good so he didnt need to put in so much effort.  At first of course he was better but as the years went on I trained hard and became a far better player going on to play in the nationals and he wasn't accepted. 
 

The determination and work you put into something is what will take you far, genetics will just give an extra edge to go that little bit further.

P.s. Sorry if it doesnt make sense or if it sounds like a rant but Seeing that post made me want to give you a wake up slap to the face saying this is just an excuse and none of this nutritional stuff is going to limit you from becoming awesome  also half asleep and constantly being interrupted by some girl next to me

Oh and btw I didn't mean to say that I had no problems from the really crappy nutrition as a child I had LOTS including skin dermatitis, being underweight, having migraines at the age of 6-8 so bad that I would pass out, leg problems but bad teeth was just not one of them. Things like eating too much sugar, smoking and doing drugs as a child has a significantly worse effect on your teeth than just eating crappy (before you tell me kids at 7 don't smoke, my entire block at 7 was smoking multiple cigarettes a day). I attribute my teeth health to never smoking, never doing drugs, and as a child I ate sweet stuff maybe once every 4-6 months. It's definitely not genetic either as both my parents have horrible teeth. 

You should focus on the now. You have nutrition knowledge, access to a great amount of quality food, this site alone has so much information on training that very few people had say 10 years ago. My point is that things are significantly in your favor training wise and to accomplish great things all that is needed is YOUR hard work. Not everyone in the world can say that they are that lucky. 

Wise words.

 Could be worse.

 On the brighter side of things...it sounds like you still want to live...and that's a positive point.

OMG! so many are caught up in first world problems that I don't know what to begin with!

Maybe you could start providing peanut butter & jelly sandwiches, and an education for one, or several, of the kids in Somalia, Afghanistan, or Uganda that need it more than anything else?

That'll take your mind off your, ahem..... misery(?)

Bradmelon said:

...WHAT'S THE POINT WHEN I CAN NEVER REACH MY POTENTIAL LIKE SOME GUY IN AFRICA ...

...

I don't want anyone to sugar-coat this...

Sorry, I've sugar coated what I really wanted to say!

Oh wow, how did I let this slide for so long? Sorry, had things going on, working late, etc.

Fred, never once did I say I was "miserable", and you can call it " first world problems" or whatever else you want; but you should understand how it feels when you've been led for YEARS to believe something is caused by things out of your control, when the sad truth is it could have all been prevented and everything else you know about diversity is wrong.

I've slowly gotten over the things I said in this topic from months ago, but the bitter taste still sticks and I'm still wishing I'd never had read Price's work and had just stayed ignorant like everyone else for the rest of my life. You know how the saying goes.

Oh and by the way, why would I give those children PB&J sandwiches when I could give them REAL food? At least then they wouldn't have to go through all this crap me and others have gone through.

If you want a real reason, it's because peanut butter, jelly, and modern breads will survive the trip to Africa without spoiling. "Real food" typically won't by the time it has made its way through customs, distribution centers, etc, and gets to the people.

Just remember that none of us have power over the past, or the future. We have power over our present, and if we want a better future we can try to alter what we do in the present so that we are led to a better future, based on the best knowledge we have or can gather, given our current capabilities.

Doing anything else is just self-abuse.

You're making progress, but it takes time and practice to move past bitterness and become more fully immersed in a healthy mindset. Don't give up, you're moving forward!

Yeah, I guess you're right. With all the stuff about "bitterness" and "healthy mindsets", I mean.

Although, on the plus side, since I've cut grains, beans, and all processed food from my diet (except white rice and the occasional corn chips at Mexican restaurants; gotta scoop up guac and hot salsa somehow) , I haven't worn my retainer in over two months, and my teeth haven't shifted at all!

It's maybe a stretch, but I would say it's because by taking all those degenerative foods from my daily diet, it's allowing me to absorb more vital nutrients for bone growth, which is probably why most people's teeth go to s**t again after braces if they don't wear their retainers their whole lives: they "fix" the issue, but not the underlying cause of it, which is in this case the SAD diet.

Unless I'm wrong.

This isn't really the place to discuss dental development, but, while nutrition certainly plays a major role, so does jaw and tongue positioning.

The tongue provides several times the pressure used by jaw spreaders, when held against the roof of the mouth as nature intended (which requires the jaws to be very nearly fully closed, also as nature intended). This causes the cheeks to widen, and the upper teeth to occupy the amount of space intended, which of course will influence how they fit together as well.

I'm quite sure there are more details, but I'm not going to get into that here.

Just remember, there is hardly ever one sole reason for anything in biological systems.

Well, I have been practicing good oral posture a couple times a day (tongue touching roof of mouth and exerting force up and back when swallowing), so that probably has something to do with it. I'm also a pretty dominant nose-breather as of now. And actually, looking back at pics of me as a kid, I was never really a mouth-breather to begin with; my mouth is closed in pretty much all of them. The only time I really breathed heavily through my mouth was when running. But now I can do it all through my nose, so that's some obvious progress.

Also Joshua, I'm aware there's LOTS of different reasons for crooked teeth and relapse after braces than just nutrition. Sleeping position, breathing patterns, and tongue movement are other factors that play into it. But like I said, I'm predicting it's failure to correct things like these that cause people's teeth to go bad again after orthodontics.

My oral health sucks ass no matter what I do. I'd be really interested in hearing more about this. Any resources anyone could share?

Interesting thread so far! Despite being very off topic lol.

Edgaron said:

My oral health sucks ass no matter what I do. (...)

Too many details here...

Well I brush my teeth regularly and floss occasionally. I don't eat processed stuff. Whole foods ONLY (I don't like ''wasting'' my calories on crap I won't feel satisfied after eating, that's probably the biggest reason I sustained myself from them for years).

Although I may blame something which I am trying very hard to get rid of... I won't get into details here, though.

I've just spent a couple of months getting my teeth cleaned out, even though they're not perfect, we'll see whether I keep forming those damn cavities further. They've already killed 2 of my teeth Being without a molar on the right side kind of sucks lol. Well, at least it emptied out some space, some of which came into very good use for the tooth near it haha.

A few crooked upper teeth aren't as bad as the 2 (now 1, since I got one molar pulled out) teeth that are growing almost to the side - meaning into the tongue. The one that's left is actually freaking stuck between the teeth I think, it hasn't grown in ages and it definitely doesn't look like a completely grown tooth.

I can't take this anymore.

Even though I'm not quite as upset about my teeth as I was before, there's still a voice in head telling me something isn't right and I need to go get this fixed.

Basically, my parents spent money when I was in middle school on retractive orthodontics where they pull teeth and then close the spaces, which I hear is a bad move because it causes your face to collapse inwards which lowers VO2 intake, puts more stress on nervous system, makes you less "attractive", shifts shoulder/hip posture, etc.

What I'm worried about is whether this is going to limit my progress in the future or not, and if so if it's even enough to worry about.

Supposedly this guy claims him and other people he knows have been able to correct spinal misalignment, gain muscle/strength, improve eyesight, and have a complete change in personality from the use of jaw expanders, balloons up the nose (NCR or NeuroCranial Restructuring), and face-pulling using rubber bands; basically shifting their heads closer to what nature had in mind.

http://orgoneproducts.org/blog/?s=Restructuring

Of course, he also claims to be on a crap-load of mineral/amino acid supplements and, from looking at the rest of his site, is a salesman as he's advertising things like Orgone weather machines and tachyon needles claiming they also credit heavily to his success. He also links to his friend's website where he sells herbal test boosters lol

Although I'm skeptical, I'm questioning whether I'm foolish for not wanting to change my face as it currently is; especially if there's only benefits from doing so.

Bradmelon said:

(...) I'm skeptical (...)

I wonder why..................................

If I wanted to make an fast buck, I'd tell you to send me 245 easy payments of 99.99 USD, for a downloadable PDF of a 5 steps method to stop worrying about nonsense that you can use and re-use all your life freely without royalties, and a pot of honey.

But because I like you, here are the 5 easy steps, no strings attached:

1-DO

2-NOT

3-WORRY

4-ABOUT

5-IT!

You can still send me the money for the honey

Bradmelon said:

I can't take this anymore.

Even though I'm not quite as upset about my teeth as I was before, there's still a voice in head telling me something isn't right and I need to go get this fixed.

.

what you need to fix is the way you are thinking right now.

I'm not going to put this lightly: I was verbally and physically abused as a child in a religious institution, told i was a worthless piece of shit by my own dad and was fed like a trash can when i was a child.

I had cancer by the time i was 9, had to undergo surgery where part of my thyroid was removed and thank the universe, have never (and will never relapse because im on my way to continue investing in the most health i've ever experienced in my life as a young adult after never enjoying what most consider a "real childhood")

even though the scars of inferiority still on ocassion show through my psyche, I am healing and growing into a respectful, dignified and hard working young man. im currently a business owner and only graduated from high school. anyone who tells you they did it on their own are lying because my education cost me lots of invested time, effort and money to acquire and then internalize. i was never alone for that.

after being abused, i came to one of the most important realization of my life, that im not a worthless piece of shit, im not a bad human being, i do deserve to live, i do deserve to work for my dreams, i do have a right to speak(respectfully and diplomatically, yeah the real kind), i dont have to be second best or first or last, i have to run -my- race.

and after all of that, i enjoy a fruitful spiritual life where i'm glad to be alive, i accept my mission to do something worthwhile and impacting whilst im alive and that love does truly mend your heart, so you can use it to mend others.

none of this is wishful thinking. drop every notion that things will be goven to you, you were born at some stage of development, it is upto you how high you set your benchmark. just because someone was born with something you have or don't have mean they are at less or more priviledged or holy than you.

bottom line, we're all made of the same stuff and go back to the same place we came from.

you are in control of only so much. don't focus on what you can't control.

Bradmelon said:

 Orgone weather machines and tachyon needles

 

 

 

 

 

Hahaha! Seriously!? That guy is clearly a quack trying to scam you. I highly doubt any of the effects he mentions are really and if they are they're nowhere near as pronounced as he's making out.

Sounds to me like you have an issue with confidence and self image, we all do this to some extent. We perceive some small "imperfection" in ourselves and then start to worry and obsess about it be it height, teeth, skin tone etc etc. There really is no need to worry about it though, these things are rarely noticed by other people and even if they are they aren't a big deal.

I'm certain that numerous highly successful sports people have had orthodontics and have still won world cups/gold medals/any competition you care to name.    

I can understand that Weston Price's book entails on the idea that a modern diet of processed junk food can affect affect your face and teeth early on. However how does it affect performance? Is Price saying in the book that those with crooked teeth can't perform at elite levels? How does crooked teeth play cause someone to be underdeveloped and play any part in someone's physical performance? Can someone explain this to me?

Even if you had a horrible diet as a child, don't worry about the past, focus on the future that is in your hands. You can change certainly change things for the better in your life and and let go of the past. Don't worry about what Price's book says about you being a deformed person, who is he to tell you what you are in your book. Live your life as positively as you can and don't let other people's ideas affect your self image