Started by scantron, November 24, 2012 · 10 Replies · 2,659 Views
been working on FSPs for a while, but without coaching or usually even an extra set of eyes for some general feedback. i had a cameraman the other day and would like to have you guys critique my form on a few of them, and maybe give some suggestions for how i can improve. thanks in advance!
Well, I'm no expert so I don't want to comment on things I think are wrong, but two things I definitely know are wrong:
1) Rings are not turned out during the L-sit.
2) Incorrect grip on back lever. You should be using a supinated grip, and don't be surprised if you are forced to scale back down to an advanced tuck or straddle. Well, actually, it may be a good idea to just start off at the advanced tuck supinated BL and make sure you can hold that for 60 seconds before trying a higher progression. You may find the biceps stress is fairly high. Pronated BL is easier by far.
Daniel Burnham said:This is wrong. Back lever work should always be done with the correct grip. If you find that biceps are not prepared for the most basic progressions then you should work on ring supports with the rings turned out first.
He is right though you will probably have to scale down the progressions once you fix your grip.
Where did I go wrong? You are repeating what I said. Well, you chose the word always whereas I chose incorrect - but I left it to the reader to infer that incorrect means don't do it. Like, driving on the wrong side of the road is incorrect...so don't do it. Using a spoon to cut steak is incorrect...so don't do it.
I didn't even advocate pronation. I simply said that he's probably going to have to scale down with a supinated grip, so he might as well try it first with the adv tuck.
Obviously, if he can't pass 60 seconds, the logical choice would be to not attempt a higher progression. Even if he gets 40 seconds or something, he could just work the advanced tuck. I don't see why he would have to scale down to a rings support.
Though I recall that, for back lever, german hang is the progression before tuck, not rings support. Yea?
Shakyamuni said:Where did I go wrong? You are repeating what I said. Well, you chose the word always whereas I chose incorrect - but I left it to the reader to infer that incorrect means don't do it. Like, driving on the wrong side of the road is incorrect...so don't do it. Using a spoon to cut steak is incorrect...so don't do it.
I didn't even advocate pronation. I simply said that he's probably going to have to scale down with a supinated grip, so he might as well try it first with the adv tuck.
Obviously, if he can't pass 60 seconds, the logical choice would be to not attempt a higher progression. Even if he gets 40 seconds or something, he could just work the advanced tuck. I don't see why he would have to scale down to a rings support.
Though I recall that, for back lever, german hang is the progression before tuck, not rings support. Yea?
Ah sorry you are right. I misread and thought you recommended pronated. My bad. Your recommendations are good.
And yes German hang is a prerequisite exercise for back lever. However if elbow is the problem German hang will do little to help. In general you should have a good support before doing any other ring skills with the exception of front lever. Support is just a good way to prepare your arms for the straight arm stuff on the unstable surface.
Again sorry for the confusion and thanks for calling me.
Shakyamuni said:....Pronated BL is easier by far.
It may be true for most people because of the biceps stress, but I find it to be harder than supinated grip BL. Just pointing out my experience.
Daniel Burnham said:Ah sorry you are right. I misread and thought you recommended pronated. My bad. Your recommendations are good.
And yes German hang is a prerequisite exercise for back lever. However if elbow is the problem German hang will do little to help. In general you should have a good support before doing any other ring skills with the exception of front lever. Support is just a good way to prepare your arms for the straight arm stuff on the unstable surface.
Again sorry for the confusion and thanks for calling me.
Nothing to be sorry for 
Actually, after rereading my post it seems I got a bit aggressive - so I am sorry for my tone. The animal in me getting a bit defensive haha! Thank you for the elbows tip.
B1214N said:It may be true for most people because of the biceps stress, but I find it to be harder than supinated grip BL. Just pointing out my experience.
Ahh, that's interesting. Perhaps it depends on prior experience with fitness? I am always meeting new people into gymnastics, because I train at an outdoor public exercise park, and the general consensus has always been that the biceps is the weak link. Maybe you've got steel guns B)
Shakyamuni said:Ahh, that's interesting. Perhaps it depends on prior experience with fitness? I am always meeting new people into gymnastics, because I train at an outdoor public exercise park, and the general consensus has always been that the biceps is the weak link. Maybe you've got steel guns B)
My biceps were very strong from curls even before I started Gymnastic Strength Training™. So I never had any elbow problems with BL, PL, or OACs because of that. I believe the pronated grip BL probably uses more side delts than front delts compared to the supinated grip BL and my side delts are weak compared to my front or rear delts. I can hold full lay with either grip, just that pronated feels harder.
Daniel Burnham said:However if elbow is the problem German hang will do little to help.
Wait, what? Elbow stress is pretty significant in a supinated grip GH.
Scantron. If you can, please show what you can do in a video instead of a photo. For good feedback we need to see that you can maintain your L-sit, FL, BL for say 5 seconds with good form. On your photos, your form (body line) looks really nice (even if you may have held the position for only 1 second; which is too short). If you can hold those positions, then your core strength and body awareness should be fine. As far as the critique given in the other posts. Yes, coach Sommer advices RTO for L-sit and supinated (palms down) grip for BL as preparation for further development; i.e. if you want to develop your ring strength further, then training to do a BL with palms down grip will prepare your biceps and tendons for harder positions down the road. If you want to stop progressing from where you are now, you can tell people you can do a BL (if you can hold it for say 5 seconds).
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I feel somewhat foolish because clearly I didn't re-read the BtGB FSP progressions when I moved from bars to rings. Anyway, I'll keep working on it. Of course I'd like to keep progressing, FritsMB. I definitely do not plan to stop at a half-assed BL. You're right, I can only hold it for about 5sec for now. This is not my usual workout; I was just testing my ability because I had a cameraman present. Posting here was actually just an afterthought, but I'm very glad I did. Anyway, I'll be sure to include a video for the next critique request.
Again, thanks to all.
Rik de Kort said:Wait, what? Elbow stress is pretty significant in a supinated grip GH.
I guess if you don't good shoulder flexibility the elbow strain would be greater due to the angle of the arm. I personally do not find them taxing on my elbow and don't have to put too much active strength to keep them locked and stable. I sorta just hang...
However in back lever In push against them and the biceps are strained similarly to how they are in a rto support. Obviously its a bit different but I think it follows coach's elbow prep outline idea.