Long time lurker, seeking advice.

Hi all, I want to keep the intro short by first saying i've learned A LOT from the many members here and literally have dozens of pages of discussion bookmarked and noted for my personal enlightenment. That being said most of what I believe in and follow throughout fitness and movement is mirrored off of the concepts of gymnastics and bodyweight movement for total body control and awareness in general.

The point of this thread is because I want to ask the well informed community for advice: I am leaving to basic training to become a Marine on March 18, and a lot of what they focus on for fitness standards I don't really agree with or believe is all that effective, the only thing making some sense to me being their focus on pull-ups.

I guess specifically what I'm asking without rambling on is this: because the Marine Corps wants their recruits to follow a specific regimen (28 minute minimum 3-mile run is one of them) that focuses more on muscular endurance than anything, will I lose a ton of strength and become completeley inflexible? And, what would be the best way to maintain my strength, if at all? Or am I just doomed lose all progress made with my lifts (squats and deads) and upper bodyweight movements? I know Slizzardman was on track to become a Navy SEAL at one point but dropped out due to injury, maybe the experience is somewhat the same?

Thanks for any and all replies.

JamesP,

1 - Simply add running to your normal exercise routine. Where you place it doesn't particularly matter; in a separate workout, prior to workout or after workout. The bottom line is that you need to run.

I have one student currently awaiting the start of his BUDs class next month. He spent four years focusing on GST, running and swimming. His level of achievement has been very solid in all three.

2 - Don't be overly concerned about maintaining your strength during Basic. Your job is to graduate and I promise that the DIs will make sure that you get sufficient exercise. :twisted:

3 - After graduation, there will be plenty of time to get back on track.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

My nephew is in his first year at NROTC South Carolina. For Christmas last year a very, very kind uncle gave him the BtGB book as well as some rings. I cannot promise how well he followed the early progressions in the book but he certainly did make use of them. He arrived at orientation in August and proceeded to score the highest score ever received at their orientation. (I believe it is the Marine standard). He was a swimmer in high school so he already had the endurance underpinnings there but adding in the GB upper body work makes for a killer combination.

Long story short; you'll be fine and easily surpass your mates there.

Hey Coach Sommer,

If you get the time, would you elaborate on the running scedule/routine of the student that you mentioned? How many times a week does this athlete run? What is the distance or the duration of the run? What type of runs does he do; intervals, fartlek, a fairly constant pace, etc, or does he do a mix of everything? What is the average intensity of each run? Has he done this running specifically to prepare for future military application, or as a part of his well-rounded gymnastic training? Also, you may not keep up with this, that's OK, but do you have any idea of his times? Say for 400 meters, 800 meters, mile, three mile, etc.

One more thing, what has been your method of combining running and Gymnastic Strength Training™ both for yourself and for your athletes to obtain the benefits of the run, while also maximizing gains in the strength/power/quickness/explosiveness departments?

Thanks a bunch if you have time.

Cody Hahn

It is a complete misconception that aerobic work negates strength work.

The major issue, by far, is energy in vs energy out. People almost never eat enough food to grow as it is, and they NEVER replace all the calories they burn during their runs immediately after their runs. That's a huge mistake.

All you need to do is to follow whatever running program seems like a good idea to you.

I WILL suggest the program from the 12 weeks to buds workout since it's simple and easy.

They have 3 mile workouts and 4 mile workouts, and it's like this:

Three mile workout:

Mile 1: 1 mile in 7-8 minutes if you can, but this should be a 6-7 out of 10 effort.

Mile 2: sprint 1/4 mile, jog 1/4 mile at the same pace as mile 1, sprint 1/4 mile and jog 1/4 mile

Mile 3: 4 sets of sprint 1/8 mile, jog 1.8 mile at mile 1 pace (if you can)

Now, by "sprint" I mean the fastest pace you can sustain. Don't go so fast that you know you can't maintain it for the whole 1.4 mile or 1/8 mile.

This is quoted straight off of stew smith's site. Check the link for more info.

http://www.stewsmith.com/linkpages/runfaster.htm said:

4 Mile Track Work

Jog - 1 mile in 7:00 - 8:00

Three sets of:

Sprint-1/4 mile as fast as you can

Jog - 1/4 mile in 1:45-2:00

Six sets of:

Sprint-1/8 mile

Jog - 1/8 mile 1:00

http://www.stewsmith.com/linkpages/runfaster.htm

Those are the two workouts I used. I did two 3 mile workouts and one 4 mile workout each week, every other day. M,F were 3 miles and W was 4 miles.

They are tough workouts but they are fast and will get you where you need to be.

Eat a lot after the workouts.

There is something very, very important that you need to understand: The Marines are a bunch of morons. They are incredibly good at doing what they do, but they are incredibly bad at designing effective training regimens. They work extremely hard, and extremely stupidly. They COULD be much better prepared than they are, but tradition and absolute garbage for programming holds them back.

Yes, that is harsh. It's also absolute fact. THey are good at moving very long distances with very heavy packs strapped to their backs, they are good at doing extremely ugly push ups and running fairly decently. That's it. The Navy is no better, and neither is the Army. I'd say the air force isn't either but all they do is sit on stationary bikes so you can't even say they work out.

I used to do runs for fun with all of them and outran nearly all and of course beat the crap out of them in push ups and pull ups, even most of the guys who were significantly lighter than me couldn't keep up in more than 1 category which was usually running. Small people run better than big people because they generate less heat. This matters the most in hot weather but is a general limitation of being rather large.

You are going to have to go through a lot of that stupid training, because that's what they do. Your goal should be to use the GB program to get to a point where that training is pretty easy for you because you are very strong. Don't worry, the endurance comes. Use this program to build a solid body that will easily handle the abuse of basic.

Yes, you will lose strength during Basic. You won't lose it all, you won't even lose most, and afterwards you'll have plenty of time and food to build it all back and then some.

You need to eat a lot, and a lot needs to be carbs.

1) Use GB for your strength work

2) Use those running programs for your runs. They are very specific to your needs.

3) Eat lots of food after all workouts, whether it was a run or strength workout.

That's all you need to succeed.

Thanks for all the replies Coach, jl, Joshua/Slizzardman (do you still care to go by that name? lol), I appreciate all the help and advice.

That being said, I COMPLETELY agree with the Marines being morons when it comes to programming and fitness and that's exactly why I was scared going into it because I feared I would lose a ton of progress and strength and only be good at doing tons of reps very sloppy and very fast. Just some small background on me: I don't and never did enjoy LSD running (I far prefer sprinting), am 5'3", 139lbs, just started getting back into BtGB style training (I have the book and a pair of rings) and also enjoy Breakdancing/Breakin (I would also rather toprock for minutes on end than jog lol), and my fastest 1.5 mile run was probably done yesterday at my IST (initial strength test) done because I'm in the delayed entry program.

I will definitely try that program out and do the runs on my alternate days since my own workouts are on MWF, or try to, since they also want me to attend at least one PT session a week on Wed and that sort of messes with my schedule at the moment. My next question then is: Slizz do you know then if once you actually are working your MOS there is a specific routine they make you follow for the required PT or you can do your own program? I tried looking into it but I'm not entirely sure how it works once you're in the fleet.

Once again thank you for the reassurance from all, I will definitely continue doing the WODs for strength and work more on my running ability.

To my knowledge, every platoon is different. There's usually some super weak PT with sit ups and push ups and whatever other beginner calisthenics and then a pretty good run. They don't try to kill you after basic

That's why there are a lot of semi-sloppy marines (but not very many total slobs) lol... but the average marine is miles ahead of the average sailor. You'll have plenty of energy to do your own training, and plenty of it.

JamesP,

I don't have any advice to offer, but do want to say thank you to you and any other forum members for serving.

Ah okay; I just read that there still is mandatory PT MWF in the fleet so I guess I'll have to structure my GB training around that. Can't wait for the endless crunches and the static stretching for "warm up". :roll:

And mark, while I am far from a glory-hound and I'm actually not one to be patriotic, it is still something I will take very seriously. So I will serve to the best of my abilities--no need to thank me, especially since I'm still only a poolee.

James, everyone is different but I can't call mandatory PT anything more than a warm-up. Just go through it, eat afterwards, and then do your real work

On the subject of running, most people I see (even professional runners) have TERRIBLE form. The problem with bad form is that you end up spending most of your resources fighting yourself, basically making everything infinitely times harder than it needs to be. Running is something that should be relatively easy on the body if it's done properly. There's a lot to it but some basics that help:

- The head should be gently lifted by the crown, allowing the neck to open and extend upwards, and causing the chin to tuck in slightly. A good visualisation is to think of your head as if it were a helium balloon, just gently lifting up towards the sky. There are two properties you want in this; suspension and support. Suspension as if your whole body was hanging loosely from a wire above, similar to a chairlift hanging from the cable above. Support as if you were carrying an extremely heavy item on your head (this will also remind you to open and extend the neck; a bent neck with a heavy item on top would result in a very sore neck). This whole process should be GENTLE.

- The lower back should be open. This requires a hollow-like position, and also to bring the hips forward, especially when running up hill.

- Lean forward from the ankles, not from the hips, again especially up hill. To begin with, it will feel as if you're constantly falling and having to catch yourself with your legs, eventually it starts to feel more akin to gliding above the ground and having the feet just add an extra bit of momentum forwards. You can also think of bringing your hips forward

- Relax the shoulders. The amount of runners I see with their shoulders up around their ears is amazing.

- Think of lifting the feet up to the buttocks rather than pressing of the ground, this will help to relax the legs.

- Run on the balls of the feet or the midfoot. Don't heel strike.

- Breath abdominally. Besides allowing the body to get more air in with each breath, this also helps to prevent stitches, and assists greatly with the next point...

- RELAX THE ENTIRE BODY: start to explore ways of relaxing and opening the ankles, knees, legs, hips, abdomen, spine, chest, shoulders, arms, neck and face, during your running and without compromising your technique. Your breath is an invaluable tool in doing this, especially the idea of breathing through, around or into the areas of tension you can feel. If you cant feel any areas of tension and cant run indefinitely at high speeds, then you may need to look at developing your sensitivity to tension.

Most of this will feel extremely alien at first if you haven't done it before (especially the last two points), and you will quickly drop back into old habits. As such, running must be treated like meditation, constantly checking over the above points to make sure they are correct, as the main points become automated, you can continue to refine the more subtle parts of your running until the point of almost absolute freedom. Done properly a few things will happen:

- running will stop becoming an exercise in cardiovascular/muscular endurance, and instead become a movement and meditative skill to be mastered, and therefore should fall in line with your other skill development, rather than having running as a chore that must be done to keep the cardio up.

- as you are actively developing the breath, relaxation and efficiency, you will become MORE flexible, not less.

- most importantly: running will actually start to become extremely enjoyable.

Very nice post, Craig.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Thanks Craig, I've just started running and all of this information will be extremely useful. Cheers

Awesome advice Craig, I'll definitely keep those points in mind!

Now, it's off to PT with my recruiters. Another IST today. :/

JamesP,

Listen man, taking control of your body through acrobatic movements will NEVER take anything away from you and make you worse at another sport. It will only add.