Elbow angle impacts hanging work.

About the chinup grip dead hang.

I have a theory that the chinup grip deadhang place more tension on the wrist if you have valgus angle in your elbow, opposed to varus angle, as the shoulder has a tendency to internally rotate when in the hang. This coupled with the increased outwards angle of the valgus angle seems to twist the wrist more.

I have roughly measured my elbow to bend 188 degrees. When I hang I feel significant torque in my wrist, especially the ulnar side. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Well, it's one reason people don't do handstands this way. Sometimes, they will space out their hands a bit wide for front giants. Sometimes this is shoulder flexibility too.

Regardless of your personal physiological range of motion, in a dead hang you should be at or near 180 and not past.

The rotation at the shoulder is something that should be under one's control at all times, and if it is not then it should be worked on specifically until it is. Especially if you find that controlling shoulder position in a hang is difficult,because it should NOT be.

The shoulder rotation can be what causes wrist torque, but elbow flexion and extension does not cause torque because forearm supination/pronation happens at a different joint (radio-ulnar joint) than elbow flexion does.

Joshua Naterman said:

The shoulder rotation can be what causes wrist torque

Agreed 100% on this, from personal experience

Blairbob said:

Well, it's one reason people don't do handstands this way. Sometimes, they will space out their hands a bit wide for front giants. Sometimes this is shoulder flexibility too.

I don't understand what you mean by handstand. I don't even know what a front giant really is, but from the looks of it on youtube, it looks like they are swinging with an underhand grip, and then changing it.

Joshua Naterman said:

Regardless of your personal physiological range of motion, in a dead hang you should be at or near 180 and not past.

Of course, since its nothing pressing against it. But with greater degree of hypermobility comes greater valgus angle.

If you picture a piece of rubber formed as an arm. Rubber piece no.1 is a normal arm, with neither varus or valgus, but relatively straight. If you attach the "hand" of the rubber to a bar, then hang from it, it spreads the load out evenly, Rubber piece no.2 is a arm with significant valgus angle. When you hang from an angled arm it is going to want to straighten out and its is, by my logic, going to be torque SOMEWHERE.

A question: If you raise your hands directly over your head in a pullup grip, the hands are parallell. Now if you would want to supinate them to match the chinup grip, do you reach parallell? (this is with shrugged to-the-max shoulders) I wonder, because I can NOT. I reach about 45 degrees with my hands, and I have to 1) Flex elbows a little 2) Close the shoulders moderately much - to reach parallell chin up grip with hands.

Apply the knowledge of my individual(?) problem, and tell my chin up grip doesn't cause arm torque-even with when I use all power to externally rotate shoulders in the hang. (for the record, I feel the sickest stretch in the armpit when deadhanging)

Not saying its not me, but I always love a good discussion.

What Blair and Josh are saying is actually in agreement with your observation.

To use your rubber band analogy. You can just twist the top half of the band and create torque, as you notice. However, you can also twist the bottom of the band along with the top and have no torque.

This is the issue, you will need to work on your rotation in order to relive the torque. In the meantime, it maybe best to reduce how much chin grip dead hang work you do. You might also try doing dead hangs with rings so you can work in that direction without overly straining the wrists. A pull up bar that allows parallel grip would also work, or simply doing parallel grip on a regular bar, in this your body will face sideways.

OP, I'm going to be frank because I am short on time: you don't know enough about the muscles and joints you are talking about to have a clear understanding of what you are saying.

Learn where pronation and supination happen in the forearm and what muscles cause them. They are not elbow extensors or flexors. They do not influence elbow flexion at all, except for the biceps and they do not have to cause supination.

Now, if you have a crazy elbow angle as viewed from perpendicular to the plane of elbow flexion that's something different and is not what you described. You described a hypermobile elbow joint.

Cole Dano said:

To use your rubber band analogy. You can just twist the top half of the band and create torque, as you notice. However, you can also twist the bottom of the band along with the top and have no torque.

I made the most useless analogy really. But when you say it like that, it makes sense.

Cole Dano said:

This is the issue, you will need to work on your rotation in order to relive the torque. In the meantime, it maybe best to reduce how much chin grip dead hang work you do. You might also try doing dead hangs with rings so you can work in that direction without overly straining the wrists. A pull up bar that allows parallel grip would also work, or simply doing parallel grip on a regular bar, in this your body will face sideways.

I already reduced it. I'm doing 6x10s holds, and doing just fine. My Xtreme Ring are on their way, and will be put to use ASAP.

About the hang itself; is its sole purpose to condition the shoulders for dead hang, or is it anything else too? I can hang easily for 60s not feeling it anywhere else than grip fatigue and wrist torque.

Joshua Naterman said:

OP, I'm going to be frank because I am short on time: you don't know enough about the muscles and joints you are talking about to have a clear understanding of what you are saying.

I really like this sentence. Partly because its true, and partly because of the poetic complexity within.

Joshua Naterman said:

Learn where pronation and supination happen in the forearm and what muscles cause them. They are not elbow extensors or flexors. They do not influence elbow flexion at all, except for the biceps and they do not have to cause supination.

I'm interested in learning anatomy, so I will become a young padawan of the art.

Joshua Naterman said:

Now, if you have a crazy elbow angle as viewed from perpendicular to the plane of elbow flexion that's something different and is not what you described. You described a hypermobile elbow joint.

"Perpendicular to the plane of elbow flexion" I really don't understand this. Partly because english is not my native language, and partly because I don't know enough about anatomy. A hypermobile elbow joint will not just be extending past parallell as viewed from the side, but also angle outwards as viewed from, AHA(I think I explained myself unintentionally). But it WILL have an angle, will it not? Mine sure does.

I really appreciate you all taking the time to enlighten me. I learn best when receiving constructive critisim.

Ps. Did you perform my test?