Slow No-False Grip Muscle-ups

So I remember Coach has said that the use of MUs in strength training will be unnecessary once you can do MUs without using false grip, but I'm not sure what type of MU he meant. Did he mean fast MUs or slow MUs without momentum, wide or narrow, and lean or no lean? He has also added that the knuckles of the hands will be pointing to the sides which I assume are for MUs done with a very wide grip through the transition, but I'm not sure if that was what he meant and I originally thought he meant the straight arm butterfly when I first read it in a thread about the wide no-lean MU a while ago.

I have just found out I can do MUs without using a false grip and done slowly grinding through the transition with pure strength, but I use a partially flexed grip instead of a normal unflexed grip. If I start with a normal grip, I would have to slip into a flexed grip at some point in the transition to get pass it to the dip portion. So I was wondering if flexing the wrists to shift to a support grip is legitimate for a proper no-false grip MU? Can a slow MU even be done with the wrists neutral throughout the whole movement? Regardless, flexed grip MUs are still much harder than false grip MUs.

I also have never seen any videos showing people do slow no-false grip MUs, but if anyone here has seen one then please show it to me so I can see how it's done and how the grip is like. Thanks!

I hope Coach can chime in to elaborate more about this when he has time of course and anyone else who may know a thing or two about this or want to discuss are welcome too.

What you are describing sounds like a shallow false grip. I have seen a video of a russian guy doing a no false grip MU and at the transition he slips into the flexed wrist grip (shallow false). You have to get your hands on top of the bar, there's no way around that.

I just happened to find a few videos showing the slow no-false grip MU. They were all done on bars though and are most likely harder than done on rings. They both did flex their wrist to get pass the transition although one of the guys (BARSCIENCE101) had his mostly neutral. Can anyone here do these too on rings or bar?

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Joshua Naterman said:

What you are describing sounds like a shallow false grip. I have seen a video of a russian guy doing a no false grip MU and at the transition he slips into the flexed wrist grip (shallow false). You have to get your hands on top of the bar, there's no way around that.

I guess it can be called that, but my wrists are still off the rings and aren't touching them. It provides some leverage, but obviously not nearly as much as with a standard false grip. So are you certain that a slow MU is not possible with the wrists remaining neutral or extended through the transition? Is the video you've seen with the Russian guy still up on the net?

That is definitely not a false grip... Nice! I would just call that a full palm grip.

Full palm grip lets you slide into a shallow false (pretty much just base & center of the palm on top of the bar), which is what is happening at the transition. I don't think that will work for no lean, because the forward lean is part of what lets you transition, but I don't know that for sure.

In theory, with very strong hands and wrists, you could use the fingers + hands + wrist flexors to slip into the false even with no lean. I just don't know how that will work out in practice.

Thanks! I'll try to get it on video some time.

What is the difference between the full palm grip and shallow false grip since they both have wrists flexed? Does the shallow false have the wrists in contact with the rings/bar? When you say no lean, do you mean as in Aguilar's style wide MU?

I believe I lean more for the no-false grip MU than a false grip MU. I also do them as wide as my doorframe allows me and sometimes I start with the flexed/full palm grip rather than a normal grip since switching to the flexed wrists grip from the normal grip takes a great deal of effort. One time I also felt my rear delts burning and working very hard during the transition of the slow no-false grip MU. Most of the time I start at the top of the pull-up and just work the transition since I have my rings pretty low and it ensures I have no momentum going on.

B1214N said:

Thanks! I'll try to get it on video some time.

What is the difference between the full palm grip and shallow false grip since they both have wrists flexed? Does the shallow false have the wrists in contact with the rings/bar? When you say no lean, do you mean as in Aguilar's style wide MU?

I believe I lean more for the no-false grip MU than a false grip MU. I also do them as wide as my doorframe allows me and sometimes I start with the flexed/full palm grip rather than a normal grip since switching to the flexed wrists grip from the normal grip takes a great deal of effort. One time I also felt my rear delts burning and working very hard during the transition of the slow no-false grip MU. Most of the time I start at the top of the pull-up and just work the transition since I have my rings pretty low and it ensures I have no momentum going on.

Yes, aguilar style.

Shallow false is at the base of the handbones/palm, not off the palm and on the wrist.

I would imagine you WOULD have to lean a lot more for the no false, I can't imagine slipping into a flexed position without leaning a bit. That would be pretty intense.

Ok, so I actually found out that I do slip into a shallow false during the upper part of the transition for slow no-false grip MUs on rings. I found out that it is necessary to slip into a shallow false for rings because the support grip is actually a shallow false since the rings curve. It is different on the bar because the bar is straight so it runs perpendicular through the palms for both hang and support instead of diagonal for shallow false/support grip on rings so bar MUs can be done slowly without having to change grips.

I found out that starting with a shallow false from hang in rings is not much harder than slow false grip MUs. The very hard one is from starting with a normal hang grip (perpendicular through palms) and switching to the shallow false/support grip while transitioning. Also, the more flexed the normal hang grip is, the easier it is to transition and switch to the shallow false/support grip.

If I remembered correctly, I did 1-2 MUs starting with neutral wrist in the normal grip and that was super INTENSE and was what caused my rear delts to burn during the transition. I tried it again earlier today and I couldn't slip into the shallow false and ended in an extended wrist normal grip at mid-transition and failed so those 1-2 MUs might have been started with slightly flexed wrists instead. Even a moderately flexed grip took a great deal of effort, but fully flexed grip was pretty easy to switch to the shallow false during transition though.

I don't think I leaned more in the slow no-FG MUs than slow FG MUs, but starting with neutral or slightly flexed hang grip did make me lean a bit more. What I noticed during the neutral or slightly flexed grip MU was that when I tried to transition and switch to the shallow false, my arms actually want to widen out more, but can't because of the door frame. So I speculate that widening the arms more may be easier to switch to the shallow false and the no lean MU without false grip should be possible, I might be wrong though.

I don't know either We are talking about something that is outside my physical abilities hahaha Perhaps one day we will find the answer in a training session!

Joshua Naterman said:

I don't know either We are talking about something that is outside my physical abilities hahaha Perhaps one day we will find the answer in a training session!

I think you can at least do them with the shallow false/support grip if you can do multiple slow false grip MUs because they aren't really that much harder. It's just really hard if you start with a normal hang grip at the bottom. A no lean wide MU without the false grip would likely be harder and I think that is the point where Coach says that regular MUs would be far far behind and mimics the stress of an iron cross.

Someone just put up a video of a slow MU on rings without a false grip which I believe is the first on youtube. He does them narrow with great form and notice as he slides into a support grip/shallow false as he transitions. I do mines with hands slightly outside of shoulders and tried the narrow one today and could do it too. I find that the narrower hand placement is easier to switch to the support grip from a neutral wrist hang grip during the transition.

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Nice! So, having done that, how do you feel about doing the same without the lean?

For the narrow or wide one? If you're referring to the narrow MU then I think that would be impossible to stop any leaning because I thought no lean MU could only be done with wide arms unless you don't go through the whole ROM at the transition and start the dip/press early when the body is still upright. I can do the narrow MU with very little lean when using a false grip, but when done without the false grip, I lean a bit more so the transition is definitely harder and shifting the hands is very hard. So I think you would have to be stronger in the transition and have very strong wrist flexors to do the narrow MU with the same degree of lean as with a false grip.

If you're referring to the wide MU, then I don't really have much experience with it since the widest ring MUs I am allowed to do before the door frame blocks me are with hands slightly wider than shoulders. When I do that with the false grip, I hardly have to lean at all and I think with an even wider placement, I can do them without any lean for the full ROM (180 degree) internal rotating transition. Doing that without the false grip and no leaning would be even harder to transition and shift the hands, but I think it's possible with super strong wrist flexors and very strong internal rotators.

I think another way to do the no lean wide MU is by just adducting and extending the arms after the middle of the transition rather than having to do a full ROM internal rotation. So the second half of the MU would be like a bent-to-straight arm cross pullout with biceps facing forward instead of downwards. I have no experience with this type of MU, but I think this would be equally as hard to do without the false grip as with other wide no lean MU.

You guys have me wanting to train MU's again. When you do the wide grip MU, what do you elbows do? I'm trying to picture it. Do you literally do it like a bent arm Buttefly or is it more like a standard wide grip pull up where there's more of a rowing motion?

Sorry to be a bit off topic, if I experience a lot of stress on my elbows in muscle up, what's the best exercise to strengthen them so that pain/injury can be avoided?

It depends where in the elbow you feel it. If it's tendon on the triceps side, Russian dips are a good choice.

On the other hand if you feel it somewhere in the forearm, you most likely need to train the false grip more.

mirroredrain said:

You guys have me wanting to train MU's again. When you do the wide grip MU, what do you elbows do? I'm trying to picture it. Do you literally do it like a bent arm Buttefly or is it more like a standard wide grip pull up where there's more of a rowing motion?

Well the wide arm MU is literally a bent arm butterfly mount and regardless you still have to do a wide grip pull-up. Just that you can alter the amount of elbow flexion and you can start internal rotating the shoulders right away when you do the pull-up/arm bend from hang or do it later. I would start the internal rotation (transition) right away since that's what Aguilar Andreas does and you do internal rotate immediately for the butterfly.

Sorry to be a bit off topic, if I experience a lot of stress on my elbows in muscle up, what's the best exercise to strengthen them so that pain/injury can be avoided?

Do tricep exercises like tricep push-up variations, tricep extensions, and work the transition with bands or on the pull-down machine.