Is it necessary to perform L-seat/V-seats to improve at them or are the strenght of hanging leg lifts enough? By the way how much professional gymnastic do hold l-seats or v-seats? I want to be able in the near future to hold both movement for a good amount of time which I don't know how much. I have done them without training when I show off to people which is bad habit which must be removed.
Is it must to pefrom L-seat/V-seats to improve at them?
Started by methodman, February 11, 2008 · 18 Replies · 6,199 Views
Well leg lifts aren't a static skill, they will help you improve, along with hollow body holds, V-sits and really anything core related as long as you are using your hip flexors. Well I do think professionals are really worried about holding their L-sit past 30 seconds on rings, but I'm sure they can hold it for quite a while considering they've been doing this for most of their lives. You should after working on L-sits for a month or two be able to hold an L-sit for nearly 30 seconds, and this is enough to be better than a show off skill this also shows you know something about training static movements.
About V seats, i know that L-seats are done with straitght arms (locking elbows) but is also mandatory on V-seats?
And i found literally impossible to do it with hands pointing back, which is the correct form? or it doesn't matter in order to achive that hold.
What are the hollow body positions? So if I am able to hold them for one or two minutes it's more than enough for strengthening the core right? What you means as long as you are going to use your hip flexors? I thought it's the other way around that you shouldn't engage your hip flexors while doing these movements right or could you explain??
Is the second drawing in the picture from the left the proper way to hold a V-seat?
I think this is more likely to be a manna (in the front page theres an example of this). An v sit is with legs perpendicular to floor or just drawing an V with torso and the legs (while only hands are on the floor suporting all the body)
Here's an example
I call them V-sits, but they are also known as V-ups;ex:http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/RectusAbdominis/WtVUp.html
As for hip flexors, you must strengthen them before you hop into some static movements; I've seen some people walk up and try an L-sit and they can't hold for more than 1 second, strengthening your hip flexors will help you a lot around the gymnastics world.
Thanks for the tip man I think I have pretty okey hip flexors from squatting but I will strenghten it for sure. Could you guys tell me what are the hollow body holds?
Don't rely on squatting, I squatted for awhile along with some Power cleans when you walk up to the L-sit it's a whole different ball game, theres guys in our weight room at school who try to come up to the gymnastics room and look big, they try out sample core work out and die, they try our shoulder work out and die. So try not to relate a lot that happens in the weight room to gymnastics.
http://drillsandskills.com/positions
^ There's a list of most of the positions in gymnastics, theres a picture of the hollow or hollow body there, you should try some arches or superman raises just for some lower back.
methodman, squats exercise the knee and hip extensor muscles (glutes and hamstrings act as hip extensors, quads as knee extensors) and don't really do much for the hip flexors.
Well I thought some part of the front thighs are included to the hip flexors.
Leg raises could be also a good exercise. What kind of repetitions/sets would you suggest me to do to condition them? I am only intrerested in health and maximum strength development. And could you point out the reason why I should do them for high reps or low reps.
By the way I have done in the past arches for a lot ot repetitions. Is this how supermans are performed?
http://www.xcskiworld.com/images/training/Superman.jpg
Thank you guys.
Yes, it's true that the quadriceps act as hip flexors during V-seats/L-seats. During squats, the quadriceps act as knee extensors, and strength development is specific to the range of motion and action so squats will have little carry-over to V-seats/L-seats.
Leg raises would definitely be a good exercise. Coach Sommer already wrote a great article about developing the hanging leg lift:
http://gymnasticbodies.com/articles3.html
Supermans are a lower-back exercise. The photo you posted is not really a superman. This is a better image:
I was talking about these kind of leg raises but I think they do the same thing as haning leg lifts. Tthank you jason for teaching me. I noticed now that I have done supermans before a lot but I have never done arches at least this is what I think now.
What's the major diffrence between supermans and arches?
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Hip ... Raise.html
Do you think it's a good idea to do them with cable? Would such added weight be beneficial or is it just added strenght that isn't usable in the real world?
Hey methodman,
I'm not quite sure what you mean by arches. Maybe you could provide a link to an image of what you're talking about.
I don't see any benefit in doing the Cable Lying Straight Leg Raise over the Hanging Leg Lift as outlined in Coach Sommer's article. If you have completed the progression and are at the point where you can add weight, you can do as the article suggests and attach the weight to your ankles. If you have not completed the progression, then it's not a good idea to start adding weight, even if it feels like you can.
The Lying Leg Raise does give you more work at the bottom position (where you hips are extended), so you can work the Lying Leg Raise as a seperate exercise, and work to add weight in time. I wouldn't use a cable though, since the resistance isn't in the same direction as the force due to gravity, instead I'd do them with weight attached to your ankles also.
In the animated figure you provided a link to, the trainee is bending his knees at the top of his leg lift, and appears to be using momentum to lift the weight (it's hard to tell because of the few frames). Using momentum greatly reduces the effectiveness of the exercise, and also, there is no point in adding weight if you can just increase the difficulty by straightening your legs (increases torque which is the effective resistance felt at the working muscles).
http://drillsandskills.com/images/display?path=arch.jpg
In an arch a gymnasts hips are pushed forward, chest is open. Lie on your stomach with your arms by your ears. Lift your heels while keeping your legs straight, and lift your arms while keeping your arms straight.
This is the arch movement.
I can't notice a lot of difference between arches and superman but I assume there is difference between the two movements becaause of what kbryk said of one of his posts. They both train the lower back but which one is more effective and what's the difference I don't know.
They look the same to me.
correct me if I am wrong, but, this can be known as a prone position. The opposite would be a supine position. Also arch and hollow poses are opposites.
I would say that as long as you are keeping good form, using cables is fine. But, also take into consideration that there are certain benefits to hanging such as working your grip endurance as well as feeling gravity pull you. Anything lying is going to work slightly differently, possibly isolate certain muscle/tendons, making it either easier or harder (or maybe just different) than the actual exercise. I think your best bet, if you have the skill for it, is to go with Coach's progression for hanging leg lifts and then move to L-hangs for a total minute.
Hope this helps.
Arch hold, superman/girl hold = same thing. More of just a difference with terminology. Some coaches use one term, the other another.
Doing them on floor is good, I like also having my gymnasts lay on the beam, preferably belly button at the end of the beam. Grab around the beam, hold for dear life and raise legs to horizontal. By laying on the belly button and not just the hips/pelvis, the lever arm is longer. Sometimes do these hug the twinkie/gag a giants lifts and hold on the last rep.
Arch rocks are good as well.
you could intertwine dynamic and static work, do a hanging leg raise stopping at an L and V. In fact according to Pavel (Naked Warrior), having static pauses, this will make you even stronger.
Ed
ed x said:you could intertwine dynamic and static work, do a hanging leg raise stopping at an L and V. In fact according to Pavel (Naked Warrior), having static pauses, this will make you even stronger.Ed
This is what I do. I start off hanging from a bar in a L-sit position and raise my feet to touch the bar then lower back down to L-sit position. Great workout.