DB Handstand press

In this video, the man explains a DB exercise that mimics the movement of a handstand presses/dip, which is supposed to help you gain strength for those 2 movements, What do you guys think about this? Starts at 1:31.

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On another note, what the exercise called at 1:05

I disagree. While dumbell military press is still a useful exercise, it will not sufficiently build up your handstand pushup.

Handstand pushups feel completely different and use a much different technique and body position. Not to mention the balancing aspect of it.

Also, with all due respect to Sam, his HSPU demonstration was pretty sloppy

It's a good thing if you have access to them. You just have to make sure you stay hollow and don't arch your chest.

DB presses also help my shoulder health a bit. Loosens them up real well and realigns them coupled with DB rows.

@1:05 is DB planche throughs from a simulated BL to PL. You'll see Carl Paoli of GymnasticsWOD doing these a lot. Saw plenty of guys at UCBerkeley doing them too. Generally not for max str but high reps for rehab/prehab.

Oops, when I was editing your post to insert the youtube video I put my comments in there.

The Use of DB presses is just as an ASSISTANCE exercise, Yuri. It just works on loading the prime movers with a lot of load and full ROM. Not something that is being done with a Box HeSPU, HeSPU, free HeSPU, or graduated HeSPU.

One of the most important things in developing the HSPU is a solid HS. This is because then you will not have to be decreasing efficiency by just the struggling of holding the HS.

Developing a solid HS, takes care of the stabilizing muscles.

His HSPU wasn't stellar, but I'm not gonna get give him guff for tight shoulders.

yuri said:

I disagree. While dumbell military press is still a useful exercise, it will not sufficiently build up your handstand pushup.

Handstand pushups feel completely different and use a much different technique and body position. Not to mention the balancing aspect of it.

Also, with all due respect to Sam, his HSPU demonstration was pretty sloppy

Ha, Yeah it did look kinda sloppy, What would you think about doing 2 sets of handstand presses say 2x5 squeezing the full reps i can out from this, going to negative, then couple that with 2 sets of DB mimicked handstand presses 2x5?

Blairbob said:

The Use of DB presses is just as an ASSISTANCE exercise, Yuri. It just works on loading the prime movers with a lot of load and full ROM. Not something that is being done with a Box HeSPU, HeSPU, free HeSPU, or graduated HeSPU.

One of the most important things in developing the HSPU is a solid HS. This is because then you will not have to be decreasing efficiency by just the struggling of holding the HS.

Developing a solid HS, takes care of the stabilizing muscles.

His HSPU wasn't stellar, but I'm not gonna get give him guff for tight shoulders.

I practice my handstands, often on my rest days, and while i wait for machine equipment.

Blairbob said:

It's a good thing if you have access to them. You just have to make sure you stay hollow and don't arch your chest.

DB presses also help my shoulder health a bit. Loosens them up real well and realigns them coupled with DB rows.

@1:05 is DB planche throughs from a simulated BL to PL. You'll see Carl Paoli of GymnasticsWOD doing these a lot. Saw plenty of guys at UCBerkeley doing them too. Generally not for max str but high reps for rehab/prehab.

Oops, when I was editing your post to insert the youtube video I put my comments in there.

Sounds good man, thanks. By any chance do you know all the weightlifting gymnastic movements?

2x5 is a bit too light of volume, imo. 3x5 or 4x5, minimum.

A mix of negatives couples with the DB presses would be complimentary.

By Handstand presses, you mean the bent arm kind right? As in Handstand Pushups not a Gymnastics HandstandPress?

Yes

ok so 3x5 negatives, and 2x5 presses, sound good?

Try it and find out. :|

Personally, I think that the dumbbell exercise can be truly excellent but not as shown.

The primary differences between dumbbell work and bodyweight HSPU are

1) the body shape does not change with a proper HSPU, instead the orientation in space changes slightly. You go from vertical to slightly inclined. With the DB press shown, like many others, the back arches instead of the body rocking forward and backward while maintaining a hollow position (straight back).

This is hard to do with dumbbells because the lockout at the top is much, much harder to perform correctly with DB than when doing with your bodyweight because your hands are locked in place and you have a lot more leverage and stability with which to get yourself into great alignment at the top.

For this reason, I only recommend taking the DB exercise as high as you can go without arching the back.

2) Kinetic chain: open (dumbbell) VS closed (HSPU).

The neural learning is quite different, so I don't think it's a good idea to exclusively focus on dumbbells unless you are injured to the point where that's all you can do at the moment. For good progress, you're going to need to work on actual HSPU progressions as well.

I would personally recommend that people follow Coach's original recommendation for HSPU work, which is to start with a limited ROM and perfect form, and add 1" to the ROM every month. To make this useful for tissue building as well, I think that you should do each set to failure of good form and do 3-5 sets. This will, from my personal experience, require that you learn how to quickly bail from the handstand I recommend cartwheel as well as the forward roll, because you won't know which one you will have strength for

You can always just call the set quits when you know you can still barely cartwheel out or perform a controlled negative to a headstand as well.

For the dumbbells, I'd do something similar but 1) I'd start from a shoulder stand DB position and mimic the HSPU arm movement and 2) I would remain hollow for the duration of the press. It is ok to arch the thoracic spine and the neck, but in reality this will simply keep them straight. It is also a skill that requires a lot of practice and one that I also recommend you learn to use during HSPU as this will be what teaches you how to actually remain straight while doing HS movements. Eventually this will be easy, but not at first.

I would probably suggest 3 sets of HSPU progressions to failure using Coach's ROM increase method and 2-3 sets of DB work to failure, with all other work being limited to 2 sets to failure and not focusing on upper traps or deltoids. This is fairly intense work to be doing and will require food and rest days, but will result in fairly rapid progress when combined with the food and proper volume (not too much, not too little).

If you don't understand what I typed, do something you do understand! Doing something you understand correctly is much better than trying to do something you don't understand incorrectly, regardless of which one may be the "best" from an objective standpoint.

Blairbob said:

@1:05 is DB planche throughs from a simulated BL to PL. You'll see Carl Paoli of GymnasticsWOD doing these a lot. Saw plenty of guys at UCBerkeley doing them too. Generally not for max str but high reps for rehab/prehab.

Oops, when I was editing your post to insert the youtube video I put my comments in there.

I have found these to be an excellent strength builder with the higher reps, so don't think that it's just prehab/rehab. This is serious strength training that allows you to progressively condition the tissues that are under the most stress during gymnastic movements!

Just don't be a manly man about weight selection... I started off with 20 lbs about 16 months ago and felt that was actually a bit too much, so I backed off to 15 lbs.

Today I am using 35 lbs per arm for 3 sets to failure of good form (currently happens deep in the shoulders) with no trouble at all. I'm getting 10-15 reps or so with 2s up and 2s down, and I use 25 lbs for a much slower pace and much longer sets.

I do this twice per week and it makes a huge, huge difference when done this way consistently.

Thanks, and yeah i got what you mean, what if i do 3xfailure handstands then incremented inches one, and 2x5 in stead of failure dumbbell presses, and i could also do them seated?