Incorporating the mind and deep relaxation

Hi Guys,

I'm curious as to how many of you include methods in your training that encourage deep relaxation of both the body and mind? I have met very few people who can properly demonstrate both physical strength/fitness and what I call the softer physical attributes of building proper relaxed structure, mindfulness etc.

Usually I find people are 1 of the following two types:

Type A) Concerned only with excelling in the hard physical realm, i.e. high strength, fitness, flexibility etc. The coach's athletes are probably close to the highest level of ability in the physical realm.

Type B) Concerned only with excelling in the soft physical/mental realm, i.e. deep relaxation, awareness, and internal connection and structure. From what I have seen, only people practising traditional forms of yoga, internal martial arts, and meditation techniques get to a decent ability in this realm.

I'm wondering why the two are rarely if ever combined? I would be very interested to see, for example, the effect that 1 hour of standing meditation and qi gong work (or equivalent) to build deep relaxation, internal structure and improve the mind/body relationship, would have on the coach's athletes. And I'm wondering why more people on the other side of the coin don't include basic strength training?

I discovered Coach's materials while looking for strength work to compliment my own martial arts practise, and have found that the increases in strength and flexibility have boosted the internal processes in a way I'm not sure I could have achieved had I not included it. I'm wondering if the same is true of the opposite?

Does anyone here combine their practise in this way? (I'm talking an actual crossover of practices too, eg deep relaxation while under heavy physical stress during a difficult posture, using visualizations say from meditation techniques while performing physical activities, not just meditation in the morning then forget all about that and go do gymnastics in the evening)

Are any gymnastics postures ever held for extended periods of time with proper mental guidance to allow for deep relaxation and structure to build (i.e. > 20 minutes)?

Thanks in advance!

Craig

What MA are you practicing Craig?

This is a great question, but right now I'm not in a position to give a detailed response. I'd appreciate it if you could bump this thread in a week or so when I can participate in the discussion.

I lucid dream, if that counts. And I generally try to chill out and not get worked up about minor stuff.

But I don't do structured meditation sessions. As a lucid dreamer, the goal is more to be aware in your everyday life; to always be aware that you can only perceive and never really know. That, for a large part, YOU create your own reality. So that's like meditation in its own way.

I haven't been training in GST for long enough to comment on the aspects of strength helping out with martial arts.

My caveat is; Do not buy into this separation game the commercial aspects of martial arts like to play. I practice Shotokan KArate-Do. We train hard, and I mean hard (10,000 Punch practice, 90 mintue horse stance, etc), these practices are more about breaking you down physically so that you can connect your mind with your body. We do plenty of meditation and slow practice. Also there are throwing and grappling technique in most "stand up" styles. Do not think of them as separate.

Sorry to go off topic there. I just had to make that clarification. It is a pet peeve of mine.

FredInChina:

I practice Traditional Chinese Martial Arts, namely Xin Yi Liu He Quan and Cha Quan, with some supplementary Yang zi Tai Ji Quan. If you're interested, the Yang style Taiji comes from Fu Zhongwen, the Xin Yi Liu He comes partially from Zhang Zhaoyuan (Lu Song Gao's longest disciple) and partially from my teacher's uncle, who I only know as Liu Laoshi. Liu Laoshi also passed down the Cha Quan that I practice.

Rik:

In my opinion, Yes and no. The underlying purpose of meditation is to train the ability to remain completely attentive without a wandering mind. In the beginning you would use a specific technique which vary from method to method (eg, attention on a flame, attention on the breathe, attention on a particular image or question etc). As you get more advanced the attention will become whole and it wont need a subject, you can simply rest your mind in the state of Rigpa. I guess some aspects of lucid dreaming cross over, but I do not regard it as a replacement for meditation practice. In particular, standing meditation also involves practice of the body, so allow the body to relax into it's structure and eventually rest there, allowing its surrounding environment (both physically and energetically) to support it. The muscles become very supple like a new born baby and what appears to be great strength and endurance begins to manifest, although this is really just the result of proper relaxation, connection and structure in the body.

Patrick:

Plenty of garbage in the martial arts world, as there is in the strength building world, the fitness world as a whole, rehab world, even such basic things as trades (carpentry, plumbing etc). Pretty much 90% of anything in any field is pretty likely to be lacking in proper depth and detail. The difference isn't in *what* is taught, the difference is *how* it is taught. 90 minute horse stance will just build strong legs (and probably busted knees by the time you are 60) unless there is specific attention paid to proper relaxation, alignment etc, with the right guides for visualization and technique. Case in point with gymanstic bodies. I've been to plenty of peoople that have shown me a planche (at real gymnastics centres in australia producing athletes, so not just enthusiasts), and not a single one has mentioned that to progress to that level it is necessary to address frog stand, tuck planche etc.

Cole:

I'll try to remember to bump it next week Looking forward to discussing this with Coach Sommer at the Oz seminar in July.

Thank you Craig; I've practiced a bit of Yang TaiJi

allowing its surrounding environment (both physically and energetically) to support it. The muscles become very supple like a new born baby and what appears to be great strength and endurance begins to manifest

Have you experienced that? :?:

- The surrounding physical end energetic environment that supports you?

- The muscles becoming like those of a newborn baby, and the manifestation of great strength and endurance?

PatrickWilson said:

(...) 10,000 Punch practice, 90 mintue horse stance (...)

:shock: What for??? :shock:

Your dojo is too small, your teacher needs to get rid of some students? :roll:

Where do you study Shotokan, Patrick? Japan?

I wouldn't say we don't want students, we just want people that will push themselves. Just like a coach will kick someone who isn't dedicated. Everyone can complete Special Training, pushing yourself is another matter.

I train through the SKA (Ska.org). My Dojo is in Chico CA.

FredInChina said:

Have you experienced that? :?:

- The surrounding physical end energetic environment that supports you?

- The muscles becoming like those of a newborn baby, and the manifestation of great strength and endurance?

To a degree yes, and on several occasions to what I would call a deep level although I cannot do it always. Generally I have experienced this after several months of daily practice, and only after holding the position for extended times (>40mins) which I haven't done for some time. More practice is needed My coach can demonstrate this at will, and I was able to feel the quality of his muscles, it felt like a cat. I could easily at any point on the arm or shoulder, press all the way too the bone. He shows a remarkable ability for muscular endurance, often holding difficult postures for 10 or 20 minutes (eg http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2008/10/20 ... 100275.jpg [not my coach]) and he doesnt seem to be exerting effort. It's an interesting trait that I've only seen developed amongst people who practice standing meditation.

PatrickWilson said:

I wouldn't say we don't want students, we just want people that will push themselves. Just like a coach will kick someone who isn't dedicated. Everyone can complete Special Training, pushing yourself is another matter.

I train through the SKA (Ska.org). My Dojo is in Chico CA.

Thanks, Patrick. It definitely looks legit. I wish there was a dojo near Starkville, MS 'cause that's where I'm going to university and I don't know where I'm going to be able to spar yet.

Cole Dano said:

This is a great question, but right now I'm not in a position to give a detailed response. I'd appreciate it if you could bump this thread in a week or so when I can participate in the discussion.

bump as requested