Best Protein Powder!

thanks

i like green tea,

i drink it a lot,

usually i drink grean tea or water

yeah,

Cellucor C4 Extreme has:

1g Creatine Nitrate that increases Nitric Oxide and ATP levels

135mg Caffeine Anhydrous for increased alertness and energy levels

1.5g Beta Alanine

1g Arginine AKG

the true mass gainer doesn't have creatine,

i'm getting the creatine from cell-mass 15-60 minutes before

the gainer,

Cell-Mass has:

4.2g Creatine-Sodium Phosphate Matrix

4.2g Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL

4.2g Beta-Alanine

4.2g Creatinol-O-Phosphate

4.2g Creatine-Alpha-Aminobutyric Acid Matrix

2.95g Glutamine-Alpha Ketoglutaric Acid

i'm cycling the gainer, because of maltodextrine and protein,

i don't think it's healthy takeing a gainer for long-term everyday,

this way it decreases the risk for diabetes,

or something in the kidneys or liver

i think it was that there was no benefit for taking more then 30g of protein for increased mass

true mass has per my serving(2 scoops not 3):

420 Calories

46.6g Carbohydrates

4g Dietary Fiber

33.3g protein

vitamines and minerals

it has those ingridients:

Ultrafiltered Whey Protein Concentrate

Microfiltered Whey Protein Isolate

Calcium Caseinate

Micellar Alpha And Beta Caseins And Caseinates

Milk Protein Isolate

Hydrolyzed Whey Protein

Egg Whites

Glutamine Peptides,

Glutamine AKG,

Maltodextrin,

Polydextrose,

Sucralose

MCTs

EFAs

Opti-Men

i take 1 once every 1-2 weeks, on weekends where i don't train

so it won't be thogether with what i'm getting from true mass,

and not 3 times a day every day like they recommend

as i think it's too much,

and i'm already getting everything from the diet,

i take it once in a while to make sure nothing is missing

Opti-Men has:

350+ Milligrams B-Complex Vitamins

Free-Form AMINO ACIDS

Botanical Extracts

Fruit and Vegetable PHYTOCOMPLEX

Digestive enzymes

HIGH-POTENCY vitamins & minerals

and a lot more...

it's the best multi-vitimin i've tested

i used to take Centrum Performace or Solgar VM-2000,

but opti-men is a lot better, you can feel it's effect immidiatly

and the day after

Carlson labs- Very Finest Fish Oil:

high quality fish oil company,

it has per spoon(5ml):

6.666mg(10 IU) Vitamin E(d-alpha-tocopherol)

800mg EPA

500mg DHA

300mg Other Omega3

thanks i'll check that thread(the perfect pre and post workout supplementation)

thanks

One of the reasons you don't need much more than 20g, is because if you digest 10g/whey per hour; that would last you 2hrs. 30 for 3.

I doubt a gainer is going to put you at risk for diabetes. If anything it will allow for glycogen recovery besides making sure you have some extra carbs for growth.

thanks

To be honest, mass gainers are a complete waste of time and money. Buy regular whey powder and pour it into whole milk. It's a fraction of the price and works a lot better.

I recommend ON's gold standard whey, double chocolate. Best I've ever had.

When bulking and trying to build muscle, eat until you're full then down a glass of whole milk + whey. Works like a charm

Yep. Buying Mass Gainers makes somebody's pocket richer by paying for basically some sort of sugar/carb source. That's really the bulk of it and those things come in huge tubs and you don't get many servings.

Just drink milk. It probably tastes better anyways. One quart is 32g of protein, 44g of carbs, and about 600 calories. More carbs and cals if it's chocolate milk.

Creatine+Beta Alanine. Sure if you have the money to spend on it. Carlsons Fish Oil is good stuff.

What's more important than how bad it is (since you should just chug it down anyways) is how it mixes. If it mixes into sludge, it's gonna be difficult to get down. Sure, it'd be nice if it didn't taste horrible but ehh. Whole milk or Chocolate Whole milk tastes really good though. Goat's milk or Camel's would suffice too, I guess. Just so long as you can digest it.

thanks

i usually drink the true mass with whole milk

then i'm full,

there is no way i could drink it after a meal,

i come back home after the training session and i drink it and i'm full

and you can feel it's effect fast

it has 7 types of protein and it's

1.4:1 ratio ,i think it's 60% carbs and 40% protein, not all sugars, but more than the protein,

maybe there is more stuff except from that

i'd give it 10/10 on mixability and taste,

it was really surprising, but it was the only powder that mixed without any chunks, it taste great,

also recovery is really good with it

also it costs less then on 100% whey

it costs: 44$ , ON: 53$

it has 18 servings(145g)(i have 25 servings of 96g) , ON:80(29g)

weight: 5.75 lbs, ON:5 lbs

it has more stuff per serving not just protein,

but price per serving is higher in true mass by 160%

here are the nutritional facts(on the right,center):

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/bsn/true.html

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/whey.html

i think most powders are junk, maybe 90% of them,

but if you search hard enough, you can find 1 or 2 that are really effective,

usually BSN and ON have quality stuff

Lucky people who can drink milk regularly...

The reason it seems cheaper is probably because of the 7 types of protein. Usually in these blends they mix the cheaper stuff in a higher amount and add the others in so they can put it on the label.

Honestly I don't believe all the hype of isolate whey. I am of the opinion that whey concentrate is just as good or better unless you have a problem with dairy. I'm pretty sure Ido said the same thing a few years back on these boards.

TrueProtein.com makes it pretty easy to just buy what you actually want and not get caught up in the label gimmicks.

It seems you are pretty much set on what you want. You will get bigger using weight gainer, no doubt. Adding extra protein and carbs to the diet will add mass. Health may be impacted but in the end you will be bigger with more muscle and fat assuming you don't reduce the other food that you eat.

Nic Branson said:

Lucky people who can drink milk regularly...

Do you have a problem with raw milk? I use this as my post workout drink when I can find it. Plus it tastes so amazing.

Yeap we have a dairy farm maybe 10min from the house. Milk is just not my friend.

I have no idea why you would need or want 7 different types of protein in a protein mix.

For most situations, Whey trumps all. An isolate/hydrosalate if you can't deal with the lactose. Ido preferred whey concentrate and even then it has very little carbs and fat (not enough to worry about).

I can see the case for milk protein, casein, or egg if you want slower digestion for perhaps during sleep.

Maybe hemp or pea for their other properties.

7 proteins for digestion in different times, fast , medium and slow during sleep

thanks

also i checked trueprotein.com

seem great too

i love that you can customize your own mix

or get everything in a jar seperatly

like what they say it is , that what it is

also saw this on their forum

http://forums.truenutrition.com/showthread.php?507

seems interesting

thanks

i think i found out something important yesterday,

i finally eat enough and slept enough, and got 400g of mass

the key to muscle growth for me is staying in anabolic state and not catabolic,

to grow muscle first thing is to not lose muscle, then grow it

makeing sure you are not in a catabolic state after you train/during if it's very long/before sleep/after sleep

otherwise, you go , up & down , up & down , and you get nowhere, you stay at the same weight

it should be up & up & up & up

i heard you get into a catabolic state from stress, lack of sleep ,overtraining,not eating enough

so this are stuff to avoid

We have been telling you that for months.

I am glad you are starting to understand what you need!

Make sure you realize that the key to avoiding catabolism is getting enough energy all day long. Protein is important as well, but by far the most important thing is energy balance.

Thanks!

igalk474 said:

7 proteins for digestion in different times, fast , medium and slow during sleep

thanks

also i checked trueprotein.com

seem great too

i love that you can customize your own mix

or get everything in a jar seperatly

like what they say it is , that what it is

also saw this on their forum

http://forums.truenutrition.com/showthread.php?507

seems interesting

thanks

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but Im pretty sure that when you eat things in combination they all get digested at the same rate. That is why you can add fats or fibers to a meal to make the digestion slow down.

Well, not quite but in practical terms that's not quite wrong either.

With the protein mixes you'll have a somewhat sequential release from the stomach but not completely. If there's casein in there it will slow the release rate, but the other proteins will mix evenly in the water and will leave the stomach somewhat faster, by percentage, as the casein because the micelles don't mix well with water (casein has a polar and nonpolar end, which is what causes the micelles to form) and will sort of group together a bit. So you'll basically have two groups of proteins, the casein and everything else, exiting the stomach with casein bringing up the rear. The others will pretty much all exit and digest together.

Egg only has a different absorption rate because whole eggs have fat in the yolk (which also has half the protein) and this slows down the gastric emptying.

This is a little different from a mixed solid meal...

Assuming that the fats and fiber are evenly mixed through the meal, you have a bolus that simply takes longer to move from the stomach to the small intestine. Once in the small intestine transit time is fairly fixed for unspiced solid foods consumed with 12 ounces of fluid, from what I understand, at 3-4 hours. So if you have a gastric emptying time of 3 hours then you have a total meal absorption time of 6-7 hours, but that is a pretty long emptying time.

For mixed meals of solid food there is usually a 45-60 minute delay before there is any significant emptying into the intestines. From there I believe that hydration status, including water consumed with the meal, has a large effect on total digestion and utilization (as the water is actually used in digestion directly as well as preventing tissue dehydration that would occur due to water being moved from the tissues to the stomach and small intestine). This is in part because consuming the water keeps cells hydrated, which is required for any significant protein synthesis to occur.

Spices can significantly speed up intestinal transit, which of course lowers net absorption because the food spends less time in the small intestine. Capsaicin and peppercorns can both do this, as can rhubarb or any other cathartic substance. In medical terms, a cathartic is a substance that increases the rate of transit through the intestines due to increased smooth muscle contraction rate.

Liquid meals pass through the gut very similarly to water, which means like 1-2 hours. Casein is a bit different because it forms micelles, which are these bubbles of protein that do not mix well with the water. It empties from the gut more slowly and travels through the intestines a bit slower as well from what I understand.

Whey dissolves very neatly, which allows it to empty from the stomach quite rapidly and essentially experience the same transit time as any other 6% solution, which is nearly identical to pure water. This is why there is literally no point to taking more than 20-30 grams of whey at once... you just don't get much of any additional peak protein synthesis and you do not extent the window of enhanced protein synthesis at all.

This is, again, why real foods are better for your regular meals. They empty slower and will give a longer, more sustained rate of release.

That's why whey is what you will prefer before and after the workout, and also why casein takes longer to digest and is honestly a better protein to use as a 60:40 casein to whey mixture during the day, if you are looking for maximal hourly absorption and minimal waste with a sustained release to carry you from meal to meal. If possible I will absolutely suggest that you get real meat or real veggie combinations, but if you have to use powders for whatever reason then try to mix some peanut butter in with the protein so that you get long chain fatty acids to slow the absorption (particularly if you aren't using casein but even then it's a good idea, just for the calories) and some carbohydrate as well. It won't be enough carbs, but between that and some fruit or whatever carb source works for you (powdered long chain maltodextrin is chalky but reasonably priced, as is oatmeal powder [which you can make yourself]) it is possible to get a complete meal with a fairly close approximation of real food digestion.

Joshua Naterman said:

If possible I will absolutely suggest that you get real meat or real veggie combinations, but if you have to use powders for whatever reason then try to mix some peanut butter in with the protein so that you get long chain fatty acids to slow the absorption (particularly if you aren't using casein but even then it's a good idea, just for the calories)....

What about other fats, like butter (grass-fed) or coconut oil (not LCT)?

grass fed butter is awesome, coconut oil is plenty healthy but will not slow down gastric emptying as there are not many LCT in there.

MCT and SCT do not slow gastric emptying to any significant degree, so they can't be treated the same way as LCT, much as 40g of oatmeal can't be treated the same way as 40g of dextrose.

interesting

keep it coming...

just got another 500g of mass, using the same principles,

47kg now, goal 52kg, need 5 more kg,

it's great to get back to the basics of it(mass gain), and not over-complicate it

thanks

Joshua Naterman said:

grass fed butter is awesome, coconut oil is plenty healthy but will not slow down gastric emptying as there are not many LCT in there.

MCT and SCT do not slow gastric emptying to any significant degree, so they can't be treated the same way as LCT, much as 40g of oatmeal can't be treated the same way as 40g of dextrose.

Thanks, Josh!

i'm now at 48kg

my goal is 53.5kg

5.5kg to go

also

updated my stack:

pre workout: Cellucor C4 Extreme(Orange/Fruit Punch)

creatin/glutamin: BSN Cell-Mass 2.0(Arctic Berry Blast)

protein/gainer: BSN True-Mass(Vanilla Ice Cream / Strawberry Milkshake)

gainer for not skinny: MHP up your mass (uses barley, oats and oat fiber instead of maltodextrin and sugars)

multi-vitamin: Optimum Nutrition Opti-Men / Opti-Women

bcaa for during a long workout: scivation xtend / modern bcaa (i'm comparing them soon)

fish oil(omega 3): Carlson labs Very Finest Fish Oil (Lemon)

also i thought about adding

Kre-Alkalyn EFX Pro for preworkout togheter with Cellucor C4 Extreme

whats your thought / experience about Kre-Alkalyn?

http://www.kre-alkalyn.com/index.php?op ... Itemid=170

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/aap/k ... fxpro.html

also, i'm now comparing spiderbottle shaker vs regular shaker

http://spiderbottle.telltarget.org/en/i ... menuks=261

http://spiderbottle.telltarget.org/en/i ... 84&ppid=6&

thanks!

You won't find anything better OR at a better price point than Modern BCAA. I honestly don't know how they can sell at that price.

I think it's great that you're experimenting around, and I hope my following comment will help lessen the amount of money you waste:

When I was in the Navy I literally tried nearly everything on the market. I mean that literally. Over 50% of my income for 2.5 years went to supplements. Every single brand of protein, every single creatine, every herbal testosterone supplement, beta-alanine +creatine, etc. I wasted well over $800 USD per month nearly every month for 30 months. nearly $24,000

Results:

Lean Dessert protein actually tastes like what it says on the label. Nectar actually tastes exactly like fruit juice. I did not like Optimum nutrition products.

There was no difference in my results with expensive hydrosylates, isolates, or concentrates.

The only 2 proteins that let me sleep through the night were Probolic-SR and real micellar casein. The probolic is better for that purpose.

Mass gainers were no better than real food, and I didn't see the slightest bit of difference between maltodextrins and oat flour. You have to remember that flour is very finely ground, and that while there IS a difference between oat flour and maltodextrin it isn't much. They are both long chain molecules, and there isn't enough fiber in the oat flour to make a significant difference.

No pre-workout works any better than 2-3 bags of green or black tea brewed into a cup, or a 12 oz cup of coffee. Nothing legal, anyhow.

Additionally, the best pre-workout supplement is being properly hydrated and having some rice or other solid carbs 45-ish minutes before you workout. Play with the amount to see what works best for you. Start with 1 cup and just work your way up until you find the right amount!

These days I am smarter, and can tell you that your best supplements, in this order, are:

1) food + water + proper sodium intake and, if you need it due to poor nutrient exposure in your diet, a proper multi-vitamin

2) proper sleep

3) Getting the right amount of food after your workout (it's a lot). This is the single most important thing you can do, quite honestly.

6) protein powder + BCAA before and after workout, adding 7g of leucine to each 20-25g protein serving for a 27-32g total per serving. This really the only place that the mass gainer is appropriate. Add the BCAA to it so that you get 7-8g of leucine in addition to whatever is in the protein. Total protein including the leucine should be 30-35g.

7) Creatine, whatever variety you want. It doesn't take much to get the effects, 5g of monohydrate is plenty. Follow the instructions on the bottle for other varieties if that's what you go for. I hope you can see that this is the least important part of your nutrition!

Seriously. There is no 4 or 5 because I am trying to emphasize to you how important the first 3 are. Once those are in place and stay in place, 6&7 can definitely provide the extra 30-50% of results on top of your already good results.

Feel free to spend what you want, I know it is fun to try all the I just thought I would share my experience.

wow , thanks

i really appricieate it

i'll give it a try

thanks!

Joshua Naterman said:

(...) 6&7 can definitely provide the extra 30-50% of results on top of your already good results (...)

What does that mean? :?: