Hollow Body Pull Ups: The Basics. Video is here!

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This is my video about the hollow pull up. Please don't use this thread to ask questions about other pull ups, there will be a separate thread for integration of different pull ups into a complete program at a later date when I am able to properly produce such a thing. Let's keep this discussion specific to the hollow position pull up.

Mort, in case anyone is wondering, is my roommate's girlfriend's dog. He likes to eat trash, which gets him put in time out. Strangely, while Mort is a rather smart dog, he has terrible long term memory and so he forgets that eating trash = time out. And so we end up with funny noises for 10-15 minutes while he wishes he was back with the pack.

other than filming yourself, do you have any tricks you use to make sure you are in a good hollow?

I have trouble knowing when i'm properly hollow in a hang as you don't have feedback from the floor telling you how flat your lower back is.

So are you saying that you should always do every type of pull-up hollow? This is the "correct/standard/right" way to do a pull-up and the arched or "normal" way the "wrong" way? Is this the same as, for example, having your back flat in pushups/rows being the correct way to do the exercise, and having your back arched/bent being the wrong way and to always be avoided?

I think we need to get away from 'right vs. wrong' with questions of this nature. The thing is to understand why they are different, and to give purpose to the way we work.

As Slizz said, the arched version is more of a prehab, it will amongst other things, strengthen the scapular retractors. This is a good thing. The hollowed version is going to use more of the big muscles which are what we need for creating power and athletic movement. This is also good. The arched version will help to keep things in balance, which is why it's considered prehab.

This is exactly what Coach Sommer told me as well in a past conversation, his other point in that conversation was not to spend all your energy doing pre-hab.

In general with prehab, one will do higher reps, and be less concerned with max strength. The form will dictate the movement, for example if you are working your scapular retractors, the prime concern is getting them squeezed together.

With strength work the movement will dictate the form for example the scapula will adjust as needed to complete the movement. Of course this doesn't mean slop is ok, it means that there is athleticism/coordination/skill involved. Each movement will have an ideal way of being done but in general for prehab work the movements are more artificial, more about isolating specific regions.

So there is a right way for a given purpose, but no right way. The big problem as I see it is that most people want everything to be black and white. Give yourself a little (not too much) room to explore, and a lot of these things become somewhat intuitive.

This is a very helpful video Joshua, thanks. Would wide grip hollow pull-ups work more of the lats or just recruit different fibers than a narrower grip one?

Ragnarok said:

So are you saying that you should always do every type of pull-up hollow? This is the "correct/standard/right" way to do a pull-up and the arched or "normal" way the "wrong" way? Is this the same as, for example, having your back flat in pushups/rows being the correct way to do the exercise, and having your back arched/bent being the wrong way and to always be avoided?

These are two different types of pull-ups for two different purposes. As said from Cole and others, the arched pull-ups are for strengthening the scapular retractors and the hollow pull-ups are good for recruiting the lats very well (more so than the arched ones) and building strength in the hollow body position.

Cole Dano said:

I think we need to get away from 'right vs. wrong' with questions of this nature. The thing is to understand why they are different, and to give purpose to the way we work.

As Slizz said, the arched version is more of a prehab, it will amongst other things, strengthen the scapular retractors. This is a good thing. The hollowed version is going to use more of the big muscles which are what we need for creating power and athletic movement. This is also good. The arched version will help to keep things in balance, which is why it's considered prehab.

This is exactly what Coach Sommer told me as well in a past conversation, his other point in that conversation was not to spend all your energy doing pre-hab.

In general with prehab, one will do higher reps, and be less concerned with max strength. The form will dictate the movement, for example if you are working your scapular retractors, the prime concern is getting them squeezed together.

With strength work the movement will dictate the form for example the scapula will adjust as needed to complete the movement. Of course this doesn't mean slop is ok, it means that there is athleticism/coordination/skill involved. Each movement will have an ideal way of being done but in general for prehab work the movements are more artificial, more about isolating specific regions.

So there is a right way for a given purpose, but no right way. The big problem as I see it is that most people want everything to be black and white. Give yourself a little (not too much) room to explore, and a lot of these things become somewhat intuitive.

Amazing explanation.. Thanks

Ragnarok said:

So are you saying that you should always do every type of pull-up hollow? This is the "correct/standard/right" way to do a pull-up and the arched or "normal" way the "wrong" way? Is this the same as, for example, having your back flat in pushups/rows being the correct way to do the exercise, and having your back arched/bent being the wrong way and to always be avoided?

In the video I very clearly state that you need both, but that this video focuses on hollow. This is also in the video description on youtube.

okay now I'm confused. we have been discussing the arched pullups for months now, and everyone said that it is the one that will engage my lats the most. Now everyone says that it is only prehab for the scapulas, and the big muscles are worked with the hollow pullup. There was the 10sets with 30seconds rest pullup programme. Now we have this 60 second overall for one set.

I understand that both of them is needed but my main problem is that I do not know now which one is the ideal for developing the lats and the big muscles. Also what method to use.

norbeex3 said:

okay now I'm confused. we have been discussing the arched pullups for months now, and everyone said that it is the one that will engage my lats the most. Now everyone says that it is only prehab for the scapulas, and the big muscles are worked with the hollow pullup. There was the 10sets with 30seconds rest pullup programme. Now we have this 60 second overall for one set.

I understand that both of them is needed but my main problem is that I do not know now which one is the ideal for developing the lats and the big muscles. Also what method to use.

The answer is yes.

Both are important, both develop the lats and big muscles. Don't think about developing muscles. Muscle development is a side effect of moving. All that is being done is a change in the pattern. The arched position for example could be used in your warm up routine or as a direct warm-up set prior to hollow sets. The hollow pattern begins to take over as your proficiency with it improves, due to having a much better carry over to other athletic activities.

We're training the nervous system. Trying to familiarize ourselves with being in a particular body position and manipulating ourselves while in that position...movement. It's the progressive development.

Does that make sense?

I guess Scapula pulls are also to be done like prehab (more reps) and arched, right?

Yeah it makes sense, I mean that I want volume in my pull-ups for increased athletic ability. I always struggled increasing reps for pull ups and the thing I would like to know is which one increases the reps more. Sorry for misunderstanding I meant bigger lats=more reps=increased ability but I'm not sure it's a flawless line.

Again the answer is both. Focus more on hollow pull-ups but do not exclude arched entirely.

Scap pulls are mainly prehab. Do them during warm ups, between sets. Randomly throughout the day etc. I do mine various ways. Mix it up, do what feels right at that given time. There is no one right answer here. You guys are over thinking this.

I'm not a dog training expert by any means but I don't think that's going to work to make the dog stop getting in the trash, especially if you've only caught him after the fact.

WOnderful video Josh, i shall begin using both of these because pull ups have definitely been a problem area of mine. Thank you!

RatioFitness said:

I'm not a dog training expert by any means but I don't think that's going to work to make the dog stop getting in the trash, especially if you've only caught him after the fact.

Me either, but it's not my dog.

Meh, gotta try at times.

Great video, definetly going to try this.

Just one question: Is it ok to have legs tucked as long as back stays flat? I use bed instead of a pullup bar so there is no way i can do pullups without either bending knees and arch or do them in kind of a tucked L.

Warik said:

Great video, definetly going to try this.

Just one question: Is it ok to have legs tucked as long as back stays flat? I use bed instead of a pullup bar so there is no way i can do pullups without either bending knees and arch or do them in kind of a tucked L.

Absolutely. In a way, this is a natural pre-requisite to proper L-sit pull ups. I do this fairly regularly.

Good Morning All (morning in Chicago anyway)!

Joshua great video! This is an interesting topic of discussion because I've noticed that many gym goers, bodybuilders, and fitness enthusiasts have little knowledge of scapula position and how to functionally maneuver the scapula into proper depression, elevation, retraction, and protraction to make a particular movement most efficient. When it comes to pull ups I see these people do them as if they're sitting at the lat pull down machine (i.e. head thrown back, chin lifted toward ceiling, back arched, legs behind them, and chest struggling to meet the bar). Although not necessarily wrong, this is not the best position for (as Cole stated earlier in this thread) 'creating power and athletic movement'. When it comes to hollow body pull ups I believe the difficulties lie in lack of understanding proper setup.... which this video explains well!! What has helped me understand proper hollow in a pull up position (i.e. scaps depressed and somewhat retracted, head in line with body, eyes forward, flat back, abs/butt tight) has been focusing on bodyline in general (proper handstand for instance). Thinking of the body as a kinetic chain and understanding that when one part of the chain is out of alignment we are essentialy losing performance and efficiency. When in a handstand (although form is different than a pull up) if something is out of place (i.e. arched back, closed shoulders, head too far out) then the efficiency and performance of the handstand will suffer. Just my thoughts- Take care!

Wouldn't tightening the abs get you in a hollow position? I mean, you can just tighten them and not really move, but actually they don't get fully contracted this way, but i can also tighten them and my legs automatically move a bit forward, kind of like how you have them in the video.

I think the arched back part is easy to fix, just engage your abs and tuck your legs. But help me with the scaps part, scaps are less retracted in hollow than in arched pull-up, am I correct?

Ragnarok- Consciously tightening the abs hard is a big part of acheiving a proper hollow but remember what Joshua did in the video- he also emphasized a flat back. The reason you do not feel a complete contraction of the abs could be because you may be neglecting to squeeze your glutes hard as well. Really focusing on firing the gluteus maximus will initiate a posterior tilt of the pelvis (picture front top of pelvis rises and lower back of pelvis drops) which will begin to flaten your lower back. The combination of tigtening your abs hard AND squeezing the hell out of your glutes will result in maximal ab contraction, an essentially flat back, and hopefully a proper hollow!

Selyafan- From my experience you are correct. The action of an arched back pull up where your chest is out and up, head back, and spine arched would necessitate a strongly retracted scapula by nature of the movement. Performing a proper hollow body pullup would require abs tight/glutes tight and a flat back which would prevent the really strong scapular retraction of the arched body pull up. The scaps would be partially retracted during the execution of the hollow body pull up and you should feel the brunt of the load on your lats throughout the pull as your body fights to stay hollow and more vertical through the ROM.

That's a neuromuscular thing, but to a large extent that is correct. Scap action in a hollow pull up is a little complicated to explain... if you are doing them correctly you still feel it but they are really stabilizing the scapula instead of moving it for the most part. There IS movement, don't get me wrong, and you absolutely can get a pretty good retraction, but you have to have a more flexible chest and good range of motion in the AC joint and CC ligaments. If tissues are shortened, and this could include the ligaments as well as the serratus anterior and pecs, you won't get a particularly good scap retraction ROM compared to an arched pullup. I believe that the body simply not knowing what to do is really at fault here, because I can do it with a little concentration. At first it was very tough. I have found that standing up, arching the back, retracting the scaps, and then keeping the retraction while moving to a hollow body is what did the trick for me.