Complex Nonlinear Systems [Videos] (link)

I often feel like a bit of spectator on this forum so I thought I’d try and contribute a little by giving a link to the following two very interesting lectures on scientific reductionism and complexity in biology:

http://www.myosynthesis.com/complex-nonlinear-systems

For those here who are interested in the physiology behind training and health, these two lectures by Robert Sarpolsky (posted by Matt Perryman over at his blog) are essential viewing I believe.

They’re a bit of a commitment to get through so I’ll try to try to summarise the main points of interest to this forum.

• It clearly describes why we have to be careful about trying to predict health/performance outcomes based on what we think we know about individual aspects of biochemistry/physiology etc.

• Living organisms are far more complicated than what humans are used to studying – unlike a piece of machinery, you can’t divide an organism into pieces, study each one and then expect understand how they all work together.

• In biology, the organism is much more than the sum of its parts.

I think a great example of this happens constantly in nutrition when people claim “this food will give you this health condition because nutrient x has some effect on biochemistry bit yâ€. This way of thinking is largely misleading; the complexity of food and the body makes it impossible to make these predictions with much certainty.

On this note, I highly recommend Matt’s blog, he’s got many great articles covering critical thinking in science. Also, the lecturer in the videos is the author of “Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcersâ€, a truly excellent (and humorous!) book on stress and physiology generally.

Ok, forgive my rant, I’d be very keen to hear what people think

Excellent points!

Unfortunately I don't think you'll get much subltly from nutrition companies who want to profit

from any and every discovery. A finding is something like when the blind men grope the proverbial

elephant. Each one may believe they are touching a different animal because each has got hold of a different

elephant part!

I don't believe the scientists are at fault usually. The media usually takes the study out of perspective.

The study usually puts its finding in context, discusses potential issues with it, other conflicting findings, etc.

If anything, they tend to minimize the finding and generally call for further research.

The meta-reviews tend to provide a wider perspective, and of course advanced textbooks cover as much

as is known. Though certainly biases can creep in they do represent what it known more than

a single study can.

Will have a look see at a later time... thanks.

His lecture series is on my must listen to list. Many people I respect recommend Robert Sapolsky. Nice find, i belie you can find the full series on ITunes U as well as YouTube- Like you said, it's a commitment.

Nice post.

Wow, thanks for the resource. I really appreciate it.

I'm glad others are as interested as me

@FutureIsNow - you're right, its not usually the scientists at fault in nutrition, its the supplement companies and quacks trying to sell special diets which take liberty in over-extrapolating findings from these 'small picture' studies. Often they'll have advanced degrees in something important sounding too which leads the layman to put too much trust in them.

I've gotta say, these lectures were invaluable for me because they gave me the ability to see right through the bullsh*t that people try to sell. Previously, I might have had a gut feeling, but I would become a bit bewildered when they would go into great lengths into the molecular pathways or whatever. This made it clear that until you have clear evidence of the actual health/performance outcome, all that stuff is just speculation.

Wow I'm turning into a rambler, sorry I'm new to actually posting in forums and getting a bit over excited

fatjiri said:

I'm glad others are as interested as me

@FutureIsNow - you're right, its not usually the scientists at fault in nutrition, its the supplement companies and quacks trying to sell special diets which take liberty in over-extrapolating findings from these 'small picture' studies. Often they'll have advanced degrees in something important sounding too which leads the layman to put too much trust in them.

I've gotta say, these lectures were invaluable for me because they gave me the ability to see right through the bullsh*t that people try to sell. Previously, I might have had a gut feeling, but I would become a bit bewildered when they would go into great lengths into the molecular pathways or whatever. This made it clear that until you have clear evidence of the actual health/performance outcome, all that stuff is just speculation.

Wow I'm turning into a rambler, sorry I'm new to actually posting in forums and getting a bit over excited

Go for it dude. The more truth seekers the better

I'm with you there!

I know a lot of people put down text books as being behind the times, but if you read recent textbooks i feel they are your best source of trustworthy information, from there you can start to branch out.

Slizz's perfect diet thread fairly well mimics the current recommendations.

Thanks for sharing. And don't worry about post-rambling. Its not just you - its an internet thing!

and we're all here to learn right! so this should be good stuff.

Awesome!

Yea, everyone is different and every person is different from themselves as they transition from one life circumstance to another. It is very difficult, if at all possible, to say that x causes y unless it's something like asbestos causes mesothelioma.

Looking forward to having the time to check out the lectures! I hope I do a good job of not sounding like a hardliner who has "the way." I try to convey the belief, based on available research and a reasonably large sample of personal experiences with people, that if you take care of the basic physiological needs and don't get too crazy you will most likely have great results.

I hope a lot of people take what you have posted to heart and gain the ability to sift through the marketing BS and take things for what they are, which often isn't much of anything underneath said BS (certainly with the supplement industry).

Sadly the fitness, and yoga industries are just as bad.

I have seen people selling enlightenment!

'I'll take a kilo of enlightenment please'

asbestos causes mesothelioma.

Hmm. I disagree with what you said here Slizzardman.

j/k