Ligaments behind the knee and splits/hamstrings

Hey fellas, I just recently read Pavel's book "Relax Into Stretch" and I quote:

"If you feel a pull in the back of your knee during a hamstring stretch, obviously you

are loading the ligaments and joint capsules rather than stretching your hammies.

The solution is to bend the knee slightly to unload the ligaments and refocus the

stretch on the area between your glutes and a hand’s width above your knees.

The normal sensations during proper flexibility training are muscle tension—

which may be painful."

(No Copyright infringement intended, btw)

My question is: when I get in either of these stretches: (standing pike or any kind of pike; and middle splits)

I do feel discomfort ONLY in the back of my knees. So, the question is, should I really slightly bend the knee while trying these?

And now I just read this:

I was also in gymnastics and one thing we did that you could do to get to a middle split is to clear a spot on the floor against a wall. Then you lie on your back and put your butt up against the wall and your legs straight up against the wall, like in a sitting position. Then you straddle your legs, keeping them straight, no bent knees, like you do in a middle split and you rest on the floor like that for periods of time, stretching the groin and inner thigh areas lower and lower to your right and left sides towards the floor. Make sure to keep your butt close against the wall though and not to slip away from the wall.

So I'm really confused! Bend the knees or don't bend them? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Hahaha, that stretch against the wall always looks a bit comical.

Sorry that I can't answer your question, 3runMX. I hope you don't mind if I ask one that is related to yours.

Q - If you were to lie against the wall like that, wouldn't it be more beneficial if you wore ankle weights (1-10 lbs or so). I wouldn't be surprised if it increased the rate of improvement quite substantially.

Depends. Do you want to stretch the hamstrings or groin area?

There is nothing wrong with isolation stretches.

I just want my splits without my knees getting screwed! 8) 8) 8)

Patrick, for wall splits for the kids ( I haven't seen too many boys do this but you can do it ) you can use ankle weights.

And yes, it looks very odd no matter the gender or child or adult.

Back to the original question about the stretch in the back of the knee feeling.

This would be a rare case where i don't agree with Pavel. Bending the knee will shorten the hamstring it won't move the stretch to the belly of the muscle, just take tension out and therefor relive the sensation at the back of the knee.

In saying that i don't mean to say bending the knee is wrong 100% of the time. No matter what for an inflexible individual there will be some compromise in form. If the knee is straight there will be premature rounding of the back due to the inability to flex the hips past 90 degrees.

If you bend the knees, the hips will flex past 90 degrees. The stress on the tendons will also move up to the sit bones, which is a much more common site of injury in forward bends. I've honestly never heard of anyone injuring the insertion points at the back of the knee through stretching, however i've seen many with issues at the origin at the sitting bone.

I say this as a caution to not overdo the bent knee position. Everything compromise has a positive and negative effect, however some compromise is often required in life.

Now lets say you have a halfway decent forward bend, are able to flex the hips past 90 degrees and have straight legs.

It's very common that the stretch will 'feel' in the back of the knees. There is a lot to this that i won't bore you with, you'd have to come to my classes for that kind of yawn fest. But in reality the solution is very simple, when you are stretching the hamstrings you will notice that if you 'decide' to you can move the stretch feeling from the back of the knee to the belly of the muscle. It's really that simple, you just move it up.

On the odd looking wall straddle question - time to grow up folks!

It's my opinion that feeling it behind the knee is just because that's the weak link.

A similar example is a rear leg raise - bend forward at the waist around 90 degrees, then lift one leg behind you as high as it can go (try not to rotate it). This *should* be an active stretch for the quads, but a lot of people feel it more in the hamstring of the lower leg. This is because that's the weak link. Keep doing it, and eventually you'll feel it in the quad

The stress on the tendons will also move up to the sit bones, which is a much more common site of injury in forward bends.

I have this issue! I feel like the spot where my hams attach to my "sit bones" is sore. Maybe I have overworked it?