Hollow body hold; upper back on floor or off?

it occured to me today that I don't know which one is technically correct by coach sommer's standards.

With upper back on floor:

With with upper back off floor:

anybody know?

Lower back pressed into floor. Feet and shoulders should be off the floor but not neccessarily too high. Keep tension through out the body.

The upper back will be off the floor slightly, but doesn't have to be horribly exaggerated. The most important thing is to have the lower back pressed firmly into the floor!

gotcha, Thanks for the quick responses guys

I would make people seek the position from the first picture more than the one of the second picture. On the second picture, the back is also hollow, but the guy doesn't seem to be strong enough to flatten more his body. A straighter position should be the goal, I think.

Vagabond said:

I would make people seek the position from the first picture more than the one of the second picture. On the second picture, the back is also hollow, but the guy doesn't seem to be strong enough to flatten more his body. A straighter position should be the goal, I think.

He also seems really uncomfortable and hunched forward.

Gentlemen, the guy in the second picture is Carl Paoli from GymnasticsWOD who works and helps out K-Star. I saw what he is still capable of a few years ago at the 2009 CFGames and seeing that he was also an elite from Spain, he probably is strong enough though it is a demonstration for CF people, thus non gymnasts.

To note, more than likely that collegiate gymnast is stronger than Carl is nowadays. Just a guess though. Carl pulled off B-level rings moves after not touching a rings tower in a LONNNG time he said. He was very cool.

Cool. He probably just exaggerated the position for the demonstration purpose. Or maybe it was for doing rock'n rolls, or something.

I'd say so.

Blairbob said:

Gentlemen, the guy in the second picture is Carl Paoli from GymnasticsWOD who works and helps out K-Star. I saw what he is still capable of a few years ago at the 2009 CFGames and seeing that he was also an elite from Spain, he probably is strong enough though it is a demonstration for CF people, thus non gymnasts.

To note, more than likely that collegiate gymnast is stronger than Carl is nowadays. Just a guess though. Carl pulled off B-level rings moves after not touching a rings tower in a LONNNG time he said. He was very cool.

I've seen some of his videos, and I believe that the second picture is a capture of a hollow body ROCK. He is rolling back and forth while holding the hollow position, hence the exaggerated height seen in the photo!

A.J.

I know this thread is very old, but the topic has been bothering me. Which one is correct?

Someone said that the second picture is a capture of a hollow body rock, but that's not true. Here's the link:

http://gymnasticswod.com/content/hollow-body

Strive to look like the first picture but like was mentioned earlier the key point is having your lower back pressed firmly I to the ground.

The thing is, that if I strive to look like the first picture, I can't press my lower back onto to the floor. I can only feel my lower back pressed onto the floor if I bring my knees to my chest, but in that position I feel no tension. As if I'm doing no work at all. I can pretty much sleep in that position.

However, if I do a "crunch" and lift my upper back aswell, then I can hold at full extension like second picture and really feel a huge connection in my stomach and feel how my lower back is pressed onto the floor.

Take a video. The second description you are using sounds correct as long as the crunch is not too severe. You should be pretty stretched out.

I don't have a video yet, but I've sent you a pm, Daniel.

Perhaps Coach Sommer could comment on this one?

My experience: when I started hollow holds, I had to raise my shoulders off the floor a lot to get my lower back correctly pressed into the floor. As my strength improved, I could do a more subtle hollow.

Duff - this has been my experience too.

I usually raise my shoulders off the floor a lot to feel the activation in my core and then slowly lower, concentrating on keeping my lower back pressed down, until I'm in a good hold position. The 1st picture is definitely a harder (more disadvantage) position to maintain, so that has been my goal, but I have a hard time bringing myself right to it with good form.

Thank you, Duff&Douglas

So the most important thing is to have your legs and shoulders (Head and arms too of course) in the air while having the lower back flat on the ground. Everything else is just harder or easier, right?

I'm certainly no expert - I just do what I'm told at this point. There is definitely a harder/easier component to how high the shoulders (and legs!) are.

Looking down the road, having a solid hollow body position is necessary for handstands, front and back levers, and all sorts of ring stuff (https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/7445-hollow-body-vs-straight-body/). I don't see many of these done with a very pronounced curve in the back.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but my sense is shallow = harder = better transfer to later skills. 

 think of it as a "torso and pelvis" position exercise and the way you scale it is (you are correct) by having arms overhead or next to your hips or bent legs to fully layed out, in motion or static. #thatsbasicallyit

you need to know where your hips are in space, APT(anterior pelvic tilt) fold you in a way forwards that doesn't let you "sink" into a structure. visualize standing on a log, if you put too much pressure on the rims, you start to roll the log and you are either leaning forwards on your heels or your tip toes and leaning back. picture for reference

one of the reasons i would choose to teach hollow hold is to learn how to pay attention to spinal spatial awareness and the sweet thing about learning where your spine/hip is in space is gaining more strength in mundane movements

The most important part of holding hollow is the posterior pelvic tilt.

The overall body position of hollow body will have slight differences depending on what is being done at a specific moment. (IE: Hollow body position during a handstand is slightly different when compared to laying down on the floor.)

^^^^^^ 

PPT=Flattening the lower back

I have never thought about the movement of the PPT when first started doing the hollow body hold. I just layed on the floor, raised my legs to a pike position basically and reached for my toes, this automatically activated PPT.

However, when I understood how to PPT against a wall or on the floor (on back and stomach) it didn't help my hollow hold, but it did wonders for my planks. I've always done them wrong, but now I know exactly how to plank.

Not exactly, posterior pelvic tilt isn't flattening your lower back, it's more like posterior pelvic tilt causes your lower back to flatten.  PPT is a hip movement not a lower back movement.  Lumbar spine flexion would be a lower back movement, and lumbar spine flexion is different than PPT

Hmm.. The more you know..

Well this hip movement should be taught to everyone. I had been doing the plank variation completely wrong my whole life...