Correct XR Support and HS Guidelines

spyro7800 said:

PhilDav said:

I am also wondering what your wrist position should be during dips... should be like picture 1 right?

Also I can't figure out how after doing a muscle up with false grip, to turn out in a proper support hold and have your forearms not touching the rings... are you supposed to switch to a grip like in picture 1 at the top?

Is it a bad idea to do muscle ups if your forearms touch the rings in the support?

Cheers!

bump

Hello Hello GBers,

I thought I would try to help clarify this confusion, the fastest way to do it is almost always with a video, I hope that this helps somewhat.

Keep training hard

Wow thanks for the advice on the subtle difference in false grip... now it makes sense to me.. I found if I abducted my arms further away from me about 45 degrees, I was able to support hold w/o forearms touching with the exaggerated false grip.

Now with the less exaggerated false grip I don't have to go as wide.. thanks again!

Great video Michael! Definitely a detail I had previously overlooked

My question now would be if transitioning to a cross, how would the false grip be achieved from the bent wrist position in support?

amazing video...I thought about this, but needed clarification... thank you very much

Loving the vids you're putting up Michael. Keep going!

Michael that was an outstanding video and should put most of the questions regarding grip to bed.

I'm nominating you for a Gymnastics Bodies best video of the year award -

The Yang (in honor of GB cover model Yang Wei)

Thank you all very much for your generous response I love this community, glad the video was of some use

yuri said:

Great video Michael! Definitely a detail I had previously overlooked

My question now would be if transitioning to a cross, how would the false grip be achieved from the bent wrist position in support?

I think I understand what you are asking with this one Yuri: Another video aid:



Lets have a look at Dillon transitioning from support to cross. Again always harder to tell from a front view but his support form is superb; hollow chest, tight body, rings not touching the forearms, rings on the hands not the wrist (as would be the case with an improperly set false grip), you can see that there is a bend in his wrist as we have discussed, it's almost like he is a gymnast or something!

With his Scapula tight and retracted but deltoids rolled forwards he moves his hands away from his body and at 2 seconds you can see that the rings will naturally come into contact higher up on the wrist. So long as Dillon doesn't shift his grip if he were to pull out of the cross he would arrive back in the position he started.

Indeed the importance of the correct support hold form cannot be overstated, it enables you to activate the correct muscle groups for the IC far easier than if you were in a support high up on the wrists with straight arm touching on the rings.

N.B. I work IC once a week on the dream machine and have completed a large proportion of Coaches prerequisites but will not work it in reality until I have completed the prerequisites, I am not claiming to be an authority on the more advanced ring strength. This is why I used a video of Dillon not myself.

I have been practicing FL and BL for a while..

but I don't understand why we should not practice it with 'normal' hand position like you are about to do a 'normal' pullup,

but with a false grip (or palm grip)?

paintrick said:

I have been practicing FL and BL for a while..

but I don't understand why we should not practice it with 'normal' hand position like you are about to do a 'normal' pullup,

but with a false grip (or palm grip)?

Well it all depends how you look at it, obviously eventually you want to achieve MUs, FL, BL, IC and all advanced strength moves without using a False Grip, so yes you should of course work them without.

The reason I said in the video that you want to train FL and BL in a false grip was because i'm thinking of the WODs when Coach prescribes ring strength with multiple MUs with FL and BL in between, being able to sustain the FG without having to reset it for the later MUs is helpful for increasing TUT during ring strength work.

Of course you could just develop enough strength in the MUs to do them without a False Grip and then you would never need to do FL or BL in FG, which is the ultimate goal really.

EIther way working the FG a bit higher on the hand will definately help achieve doing everything without FG in the long run.

Thanks Michael!

I actually tried the dead hang today as suggested by you in the video.. damn!

i can't even hold that without my feet on the floor and then it's still hard..

do you have a progression plan in terms of hand/wrist strength etc before

you can really get into this?

thanks!

paintrick said:

Thanks Michael!

I actually tried the dead hang today as suggested by you in the video.. damn!

i can't even hold that without my feet on the floor and then it's still hard..

do you have a progression plan in terms of hand/wrist strength etc before

you can really get into this?

thanks!

Keen not to do too much paradigm shifting so I would just recommend following Coach Sommer's advice, doing FSP cycle and wrist strength series each time you train. If you don't include dead hand and inverted hang in your FSP then i'd suggest adding them, with false grip. If you can do the harder false grip then do it for the time you can, if not then the higher up false grip will still be great for strengthening your wrists and forearms.

As always make sure you are warmed up and train smart.

Wow, great video and great clarification. I've been wondering about this for a long time. Thank you very much for your time.

Would you say that holding an exaggeration down lower is a progression or is it better to learn it by holding it on the "fleshy part" from the beginning?

With any kind of grip work, you want to do as much as you can of each set with the desired grip (false, fingers only, etc) and then go back to regular grip for the rest of the set when something feels weird.

It takes a while , 6-10 weeks, to fully adapt to the point where you can do the same volume of work with the false and regular grip.

If you watch professional gymnasts, they all transition through nearly everything with false grip because our wrists will simply give out before a routine is over without the false. For a single strength move I am sure many don't need the false, but when you're talking about a whole minute of ring strength I think it's a lot smarter to have the false grip for most of it.

They also slip into and out of the false grip at various times, just like Dillon slips into a very deep false grip while he lowers into IC in the video. Slipping back out of it isn't as easy.

Vincearoo said:

Wow, great video and great clarification. I've been wondering about this for a long time. Thank you very much for your time.

Would you say that holding an exaggeration down lower is a progression or is it better to learn it by holding it on the "fleshy part" from the beginning?

Thanks I'd say that would be a good way to work up to it

Michael, your videos are really helpful. I have one further question. I'm understanding the subtle differences and reasons for holding the false grip. My question: Is the rule about the forearms not touching the rings applicable to just the support position? Or does it apply to the entire motion (for Dips, PPPu, and MU)? I can hold the support position, but when I descend into the dip or the PPPu, it's very difficult to keep the forearms from touching the rings. '

Thanks guys

mhodges said:

Michael, your videos are really helpful. I have one further question. I'm understanding the subtle differences and reasons for holding the false grip. My question: Is the rule about the forearms not touching the rings applicable to just the support position? Or does it apply to the entire motion (for Dips, PPPu, and MU)? I can hold the support position, but when I descend into the dip or the PPPu, it's very difficult to keep the forearms from touching the rings. '

Thanks guys

Thanks mhodges, apologies for the late reply.

As I understand it the reason to hold a support position with rings fully turned out and not touching the rings/straps with any part of the forearm is to condition the biceps tendons and the straight arm strength.

Coach has often remarked that there is no carry over between straight arm strength and bent arm strength. Therefore the importance of not having your arms touch the straps in many of the bent arm FBE is far less important (indeed as you have observed in many of them it is not possible). However in all veriations of FBE insofar as it is possible (according to the mechanics of the movement and your pysical preparation) I would endeavour to keep your arms free from the straps for as much of the movement as possible as this decreases the stability of the rings and will benefit you more in the long run.

e.g.

MU with excellent form - forearms touch during dip portion.

Wide Muscle Up (which will take increased pysical preparation) = froearms don't touch.

Michael Traynor said:

Thanks mhodges, apologies for the late reply.

As I understand it the reason to hold a support position with rings fully turned out and not touching the rings/straps with any part of the forearm is to condition the biceps tendons and the straight arm strength.

Coach has often remarked that there is no carry over between straight arm strength and bent arm strength. Therefore the importance of not having your arms touch the straps in many of the bent arm FBE is far less important (indeed as you have observed in many of them it is not possible). However in all veriations of FBE insofar as it is possible (according to the mechanics of the movement and your pysical preparation) I would endeavour to keep your arms free from the straps for as much of the movement as possible as this decreases the stability of the rings and will benefit you more in the long run.

Thanks Michael. That was the conclusion that I had arrived at after reviewing the BtGB book and studying the videos linked on the forum, but I wanted to make sure. Thanks for confirming.

Martin Hodges

I think this has been answered here already, but I just wanted to 100% confirm this (and hope I can explain it correctly);

Turnout of rings in HS = same turnout as ring support, ie ending with my fingers pointing back the way my body is facing, inside of elbows facing away from my body, the opposite direction my feet are pointing. Were I able to go through support, HS, planche with straight arms and perfect form, my hands wouldn't turn at all.

I just want to confirm it's my limiting shoulder flexibility and not my misunderstanding keeping me from a correct ring HS as I am spending more time on it, and want to get that right as I work more on free balancing.

That IS correct, right?