Question on hypertrophy

slizzardman said:

Lol

Well, I think there are far too many humans to really sustain on a high meat diet with proper pastoral practices... kind of sucks. I definitely think that moderation is the answer, and perhaps becoming more intelligent about what we feed cows. If we didn't use so many chemicals on our lawns we could literally use lawn clippings as feed. I wonder if there is a way to make grass farms using high rise buildings, make feed from the grass, and thus be able to have more grass-fed cattle. I've got no idea if this is feasible.

Funny you mention lawns. I've switched to white clover in my backyard. It requires less water, needs less cutting and

is self fertilizing as it fixes nitrogen from the air. Plus it's nicer to walk on barefoot. I don't know if cows like it, but I do!

Grass pellets sound like a great idea. And you're right. There is only so much of the good stuff to go around. I'm hoping to try it soon - then again maybe I won't even like it

It's a similar situation with wild salmon - generally healthier but there aren't enough to go around if everyone eats them. So farmed food of all types has to play a role, ideally one that is ecologically sound.

FutureisNow said:

The higher cost of green food may prevent this for now, however costs do come down with volume.

I'm not sure that eating an eqiv amount of "green" meat would be any better for the environment than factory meat. They live longer and grow slower so may pollute more. It might better, I'm just not sure. As far as the animal's life goes, it may be nicer, but it's still ripped from them to satisfy my whim. Killing a factory animal is a mercy killing.

It's true that if one is solely concerned with the environmental aspect, then simply replacing factory meat with more ethically raised meat isn't going to help matters much if the current consumption levels remain the same. But the higher cost and limited availability of ethical meats might help encourage someone to limit their consumption if they did make the switch.

I would say that ripping an animal's life away after it's been given a decent life is far more humane than subjecting an animal to constant misery from its first breath to its last. If we were given the choice for ourselves, which would we choose?

The real issue with ethically raised meat, as I see it, is determining what qualifies as ethical meat in the first place. Unless one does research into the source of their meat, there's really no way to know for sure how the animals are treated. Plenty of consumers buy "free-range eggs" and "free-range chicken" and the like from their grocery stores thinking that those chickens were humanely raised, while the reality is that the USDA qualification for free-range poultry is that the birds are provided an opportunity to access the outdoors. Nothing else. No requirements about stocking, time outdoors, general living conditions, or anything else are specified. So while most consumers imagine chickens happily living in a little farm out in the country, the reality is that tens of thousands of chickens are cramped inside sheds, with just a tiny exit leading to a filthy strip of land outside, which is all that is required to qualify for USDA's free-range label.

Even if one isn't concerned with ethical issues, though, the issue of sustainability is very hard to ignore, especially with the population constantly soaring, and more and more people gaining access to higher standards of living. It's unreasonable to expect people to stop eating meat completely, but limiting consumption is within everyone's power. Minus beefaholics, maybe

FutureisNow said:

It's a similar situation with wild salmon - generally healthier but there aren't enough to go around if everyone eats them. So farmed food of all types has to play a role, ideally one that is ecologically sound.

There are a lot of problems with fish farming, especially salmon, as well. A single lb of farmed salmon requires several lbs of wild fish to produce, as wild fish meal is fed to them as the cheapest protein source, and though the the vast majority of fisheries are already at their maximum sustainable yield, or have even exceeded it, demand in the industry is still rising. Sustainable options for seafood do exist, though, and replacing some red meat in the diet with sustainable seafood is an excellent choice. Who doesn't love sushi?

You can get around this by just going out and hunting and fishing your own meat. That meat is as ethical as mother nature is and quite possibly even better for you than whatever ethically grown or farmed meat is.

This can be either raising your own animals or going out, hunting some and tossing them in a spare fridge. A deer is a lot of meat and a bison is a ridiculous amount of meat.

You'd need a walk in freezer to hold a bison!

I asked one of my students about it since they hunted bison.

His dad never hunted Bison by himself, generally there were a few people. Besides, it takes a few people to get one in the bed of the truck so they ended up splitting it up. Not really sure what the weight tolerances of some trucks are offhand but they weigh 1-2000lbs.

Clearly you guys need to watch Disney's "Bambi"

In all seriousness, though, hunting is an excellent option if one wants to assure that their meat was given a life in its natural setting, and meets a merciful death. Hunting may not be feasible for the majority, or sustainable for modern populations, but as a solution for a low number of people it certainly works.

To add to my last post on seafood: if anyone wants to make sure they're eating sustainable sources of seafood, check out the Monterey Bay Aquarium's fantastic seafood watch program at http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/cr/seafoodwatch.aspx At the "Seafood recommendations" tab on the left you can find the list for whichever region of the U.S. you live in.

Here's their Super Green List

* Albacore Tuna (troll- or pole-caught, from the U.S. or British Columbia)

* Freshwater Coho Salmon (farmed in tank systems, from the U.S.)

* Oysters (farmed)

* Pacific Sardines (wild-caught)

* Rainbow Trout (farmed)

* Salmon (wild-caught, from Alaska)

** Other Healthy "Best Choices"

* Arctic Char (farmed)

* Barramundi (farmed, from the U.S.)

* Dungeness Crab (wild-caught, from California, Oregon or Washington)

* Longfin Squid (wild-caught, from the U.S. Atlantic)

* Mussels (farmed)

That's good of them to tell us what's best to eat. Now maybe they can get the sellers to

identify fish exactly and their location of catch and how it was caught! Until then good luck

I think a recent study showed 20% of the fish are mis labeled.

Btw, the website I posted above in NZ is pretty firm that their farmed king (chinnok) salmon is

ecological and not protein intensive. It's open sea net pen which the monteray is against but apparently

it's deeper and highly flushed by the ocean patterns there. A lot of farmed salmon also end up eating grain meal and fish byproductsI believe. The wild fish will consume many times their own weight in smaller fish, which makes them better from the omega perspective, but also harder on the other species.

Recently we tried frozen haddock collars which tasted like lobster and seems sustainable.

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/fishwatch/species/haddock.htm

Also got a kg of frozen whiting medalions for $2.99. Also sustainable.

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/fishwatch/spec ... hiting.htm

Happy fishing (or hunting)!