Strength Necessary for Planche?

I've got a question on what type of strength levels one typically needs before they're able to perform a proper planche hold. I can currently do 6 paused, full ROM handstand pushups on parallel bars and can barely hold an advanced tuck planche. How many full ROM handstand pushups would someone who is able to hold a planche (and/or do planche pushups) typically be able to do?

And before anyone says anything, I know straight arm and bent arm strength are different entities, but a ballpark figure would be nice. Seeing as I weigh 225, it's hard for me to find people to compare myself against when it comes to gymnastics skills, so general guidelines help me.

Thanks.

Seldom will anyone just hold a planche by being overall strong with various bent arm movements. You need to strengthen your scapular area specifically for the planche, such as with planche holds, planche leans, scapula pushups etc. I know a guy who is naturally insanely strong, without working out for about 6 months he could still hold a 10s iron cross and dip more than 10x50kg, yet this guy cannot hold a tuck planche. Strength is very specific sometimes.

Thanks Razz, but I acknowledged in my post that they were different things. Still, for those who are able to do a planche, I would like to know how many full ROM handstand pushups they can do on parallel bars, or what a good number would be to shoot for. Like I said, I can already to an advanced tuck planche without any real planche training. It's not anything around my scapulae that keeps me from going further, it's shoulder strength at this point.

There is no exactly prescribed numbers for HSPU nor HSPU by itself can help you to master full planche without specific work, but Hspu will assisted your planche work, so the more proficient with hspu you are, the better overall from one point of view, but I agree with Razz, they are specific movement, and must be treated that way. If you want planche, and you already can do advanced tuck, now its time to work on more specific exercises (Razz mention some of them).

If you want to know about carryover from planche to other exercises, you will be definitely stronger after mastering the planche, and your number in full rom Hspu will increase, but its totally individual for how many, and in general that depends of your dedication to increase reps. Mastering the planche doesn’t mean that your full rom hspu will increase to double, or similar. This site have great tips about planche, and this man Sarabia is excellent.

http://myplanchetraining.com/

The reason you aren't getting an answer is there is no typical ballpark figure it can vary greatly from person to person.

Conditioning.

rhyneza, that was exactly what I was looking for, thank you. As for your various links/questions, I am doing full handstand pushups, not headstand pushups. I can do 18 consecutive headstand pushups, if it make a difference. David Willoughby posited that a handstand pushup was equivalent to a military press of 96% of one's BW. Working out my own numbers:

225 x 0.96 = 216 lbs

216 lbs for 6 reps

216 / 0.835 = 259 lbs

And yes, I can MP 255-260 lbs.

It's nice to see the numbers you worked out as they're fairly close to what I was expecting. 10-12 reps of handstand pushups seemed about right for being able to hold a planche.

As for the questions about other gymnastic training, I have none. I'm just a fairly athletic gym rat who throws in a weird gymnastic variation on occasion. I've never tried an L-sit, a German Hang, or a back lever, but I can almost hold a front lever and can chin bodyweight + 180 lbs. Just strength training has worked pretty well so far, but I'm looking to get further into gymnastics.

Thanks again.

Primer.

RJ Nelsen said:

I've got a question on what type of strength levels one typically needs before they're able to perform a proper planche hold. I can currently do 6 paused, full ROM handstand pushups on parallel bars and can barely hold an advanced tuck planche. How many full ROM handstand pushups would someone who is able to hold a planche (and/or do planche pushups) typically be able to do?

And before anyone says anything, I know straight arm and bent arm strength are different entities, but a ballpark figure would be nice. Seeing as I weigh 225, it's hard for me to find people to compare myself against when it comes to gymnastics skills, so general guidelines help me.

Thanks.

You are way stronger than me on HSPU but I am a good bit stronger than you on planche. The two really have very little to do with each other, and bench press really doesn't help until you already "know" how to planche. I am actually finding out that weighted PPP are f-ing awesome for building planche strength, but even then you need to know how to actively use your serratus and lats in the planche. It took me a couple of weeks practicing the activation every day to really get it sunk in, but now it happens automatically and makes a HUGE difference. There is a whole thread on that now, if someone wants to link to that. I think it's called "problems with planche" or something similar to that.

I have found that heavy weighted dips, planche leans, serratus push ups and PPP (weighted when you are 'strong' enough) are pretty key for the actual support strength in planche but you need to be careful of two things:

1) Muscular strength will build up 2-3x faster than connective tissue strength because of how long it takes the two types of tissue to fully remodel in response to a given load + volume. Muscle = 4-6 weeks and connective tissue = 12 weeks. If you try to work out at full strength you WILL get hurt and it will suck. Use your bent arm work for maximal strength and even then be careful: There will come a time when you need to start using 2-3 month SSCs for your bent arm work as well. If you don't do that, you will hurt yourself and we will help you with rehab suggestions. I would prefer for you not to go that route, as it really sucks. Take it slow. You will have strength far in excess of the load you train with on a daily basis, so don't go thinking you're somehow wasting time. You are not. That's the toughest lesson to learn, at least for me it was.

2) Structural balance. You NEED to make your traps ( upper mid AND lower), rear delts and rotator cuff muscles (not JUST the external rotators but also supraspinatus and subscap) a constant priority. These are literally the entire structural support of your shoulder joint, along with serratus anterior. If these aren't strong, YOU aren't strong. Obviously you are pretty strong, so it stands to reason that you have a good head start in this area. Keep it up and always have this as a major focus. Also: PLEASE don't forget to keep the anterior capsule nice and flexible!!! I have a shoulder video called fix your shoulder pain that has a small set of very basic stretches that will build and maintain a safely flexible shoulder. They are a very small part of Coach's shoulder stretches.

You also need to put the same training volume into rowing and pull ups as you do in your planche-oriented work. If you don't do this you will end up with shoulder problems as well, so foot supported rows and FL rows need to be a regular thing, along with front pulls and FL pulls. I personally advocate weighted pull ups as well.

Thank you both for the input. It looks like I have a few threads to read. Once more, thank you.

slizzardman said:

I have found that heavy weighted dips, planche leans, serratus push ups and PPP (weighted when you are 'strong' enough) are pretty key for the actual support strength in planche but you need to be careful of two things:

Slizz, how do you do weighted PPP´s? Do you have someone put weight on your back?

Weight vest! I'm using 40 lbs right now. I am rather afraid to use more for a good while.

Thanks Slizz, I Should have thoght of that

Did you buy one or did you make one of your own? Maybe I could make one of an old backpack?

You could do that. I bought one, and I am using 76 lbs for my push ups now. I am still using 40 lbs for PPP but I am experimenting to see what is actually OK for me to use.

slizzardman said:

You could do that. I bought one, and I am using 76 lbs for my push ups now. I am still using 40 lbs for PPP but I am experimenting to see what is actually OK for me to use.

Interesting, I might do this. But you're just doing regular push-ups or pseudo push-ups?

It's nice to see the numbers you worked out as they're fairly close to what I was expecting. 10-12 reps of handstand pushups seemed about right for being able to hold a planche.

As it has been said above, HSPU will help you towards the planche, but there is no logical correlation between them like you are trying to find.

You can be able to do 100 HSPU and can't hold a good tuck planche.

But of course HSPU has to be one of your main exercice.

Nowadays i have a 10sec + perfect fingertips full planche and i can do a Free HSPU full rom, 1RM, with an extra weight around 30kg(66lbs) in a weighted vest.

So you can clearly see, how i'm very strong on HSPU and i have only a 10 sec + full planche...

But anyway, it is not only a question of shoulder strength,HSPU won't make you work your tendons in the right angle(elbow/biceps/shoulder...)you need to practise planche a lot, no choice.

what are ppp's? Planche pushups?

mikelmarion said:

what are ppp's? Planche pushups?

Psuedo Planche Pushups. Gymnastics Bodies Acronyms