GB Pull-Up Progressions - Beyond The Assisted OAC

Hello gentlemen,

I can't help but notice the last progression for the Pull-up section in the BtGB book is an Assisted One Arm Chin-up. Now I am far from having achieved the Assisted OAC, but shouldn't an unassisted, full ROM One Arm-Chin-up be the next step? Isn't it the hardest kind of chin-up?

The Convict Conditioning Pull-up series also endorses the Assisted OAC, however the final goal is to achieve a full, non-assisted OAC. However it is interesting to note there is a step in there called "Uneven Pull-ups" which is essentially a OAC but with your non-working hand grabbing onto the wrist of your working hand.

This is the "Uneven Pull-ups" from CC

Ok now onto my own personal questions, I am hoping these can be answered as it pertains to my goals:

1. Now, can the "Uneven Pull-ups" be incorporated right after the "Wide Grip L-Pullups" (The second hardest pull-ups according to BtGB), and before the Assisted OAC? When and where is a good place to add "Uneven Pull-ups", as these helped my friend achieve the OAC (He did tons of Uneven Pull-ups after I showed him the exercise, he was addicted to it).

2. Is OAC the ultimate final step of the BtGB "Pull-up" series?

3. Speaking of Unilateral arm work, are strict One-Arm Push-ups (With strict Convict Conditioning form) and One-Arm Handstand Push-ups a worthwhile investment of my time? Should I focus on things like Front Lever, Planche, etc instead of those? I have yet to see a perfect One-Arm Push-up, only the wide-legged, torso twisting variants. I have also yet to see a Freestanding One-Arm Handstand Push-up with strict form, and probably never will. So is the only worthwhile upper-body unilateral work the "One-Arm Chin-up"? I don't find any reason to work on One-Arm push-ups if I can do Planche Push-ups, and certainly Full ROM Handstand push-ups are more realistic than it's One-Arm counterpart.

Let's discuss, and hopefully some of you can answer my personal questions, lol

The uneven pull-up is not much, if at all, harder than the normal pullup - it just requires more grip strength. I'd say that doing them would be good for keeping your grip strength level. However, they aren't nearly as difficult as even L-sit pullups.

The reason there aren't more variation in the pullup section is because once you are done with it you move on to multiplane pulling movements. Which a are a much better use of your time as it applies to gymnastic work. The reason that most gymnasts don't do one arm pushups and one arm pullups is that they move on to more difficult exercises instead of working on unilateral variations. Pullups - you move on to front lever variations and multiplane pulling movements, pressing - planche pushups variations as well as multiplane pressing movements.

What you focus on is up to you but it should reflect your goals. If your goal is to do a OAC don't expect to get it by working iron crosses and other ring exercises. The same applies in reverse a OAC is poor preparation for iron crosses and other straight arm movements.

I agree with Alexx, your questions I call goals and character choices. One thing is for sure. If you are gymnast, work on true one arm pushup, one arm handstand pushups is not important nor is necessary. You can be very strong without them, but… hm…I will rather skip talking too much about one arm HS, I don’t see anybody yet doing it, and I don’t know is it possible, maybe, probably they need lifetime dedication. If somebody accomplish this, that man go to history, so feel free to judge is it worth it. When it comes to true one arm pushups, I like them a lot. True one arm pushup will blow away many other bodyweight strength exercises because they demand very strong arms, torso, core, legs, muscular coordination, almost everything, and that’s hard, they build body from steel, so people avoid to work on them. If you can do them, there is no doubt that you are true beast pound per pound. I agree, I don’t see many people doing them perfect, maybe Jim from beastskill is very close (pictures from his site). Is it worth it ? For me, I found that work on HS balance in combination with work on one arm pushups, are definitely good combination, and carryover to other exercises is large. I call that combination the best from gymnastics & romantic strength enthusiast work.

About one arm pullups, my combination is : normal, close hand, assisted oac (high and lower height), and negatives. I am on as.oac low at the moment.

Uzeeh said:

The uneven pull-up is not much, if at all, harder than the normal pullup - it just requires more grip strength. I'd say that doing them would be good for keeping your grip strength level. However, they aren't nearly as difficult as even L-sit pullups.

What about using less and less assistance from your other arm? Do you find a place for Uneven pullups in your training? I think they can be scaled to be close to as hard as an assisted OAC described in Coach's book.

I didn't really think of that. Yes, you can scale it, bringing the other arm closer to your elbow when your strength increases. I have found the assisted one arm pullups to be a bit better, though, mainly because it feels closer to the actual OAC.

CalisthenicGod said:

I have yet to see a perfect One-Arm Push-up, only the wide-legged, torso twisting variants.

I find this silly. I am not very strong at all, and can do a this to a 2 foot high (approx) box. I imagine with very little extra strength, this would be doable. The BIGGEST issue for me is the core strength needed to prevent rotation.

phrak said:

CalisthenicGod said:

I have yet to see a perfect One-Arm Push-up, only the wide-legged, torso twisting variants.

I find this silly. I am not very strong at all, and can do a this to a 2 foot high (approx) box. I imagine with very little extra strength, this would be doable. The BIGGEST issue for me is the core strength needed to prevent rotation.

I love your optimism. Wide legged with torso twisting one arm pushups and true one arm pushups are two completely different moves, almost nothing in common. It is doable after many months of hard specificity work. Your biggest issue is something that we all fighting for in most gymnastics exercises for very long time. Little test for you: Put yourself in standard pushup position, hands shoulder width, legs also, and now lift one arm, but here comes the catch, lift one arm without any (no 1mm) shifting to opposite side, no move to other hand on the ground, no move legs and I mean any move even for 1mm. Just pushup position like a rock statue, now easy lift one arm. Try, no cheating. If you do it right, you can feel incredible amount of pressure in hole body just to hold the position on three fixed spots instead of four. Now, do the pushup with arm on the ground without change the position of the body. Beautiful, isn`t it ?

phrak said:

CalisthenicGod said:

I have yet to see a perfect One-Arm Push-up, only the wide-legged, torso twisting variants.

I find this silly. I am not very strong at all, and can do a this to a 2 foot high (approx) box. I imagine with very little extra strength, this would be doable. The BIGGEST issue for me is the core strength needed to prevent rotation.

Not trying to be provocative or anything, but I have yet to see a perfect, legs together and no torso twisting OAP, after searching through countless videos on YouTube. The closest some guy got was a legs wide but no torso twisting. I can also do A perfect OAP on an incline, but doing it on the floor is completely different. If you can show me a video of a perfect, legs together and no torso twisting OAP, I will admit everythig I said was wrong.

Lekman said:

phrak said:

CalisthenicGod said:

I have yet to see a perfect One-Arm Push-up, only the wide-legged, torso twisting variants.

I find this silly. I am not very strong at all, and can do a this to a 2 foot high (approx) box. I imagine with very little extra strength, this would be doable. The BIGGEST issue for me is the core strength needed to prevent rotation.

I love your optimism. Wide legged with torso twisting one arm pushups and true one arm pushups are two completely different moves, almost nothing in common. It is doable after many months of hard specificity work. Your biggest issue is something that we all fighting for in most gymnastics exercises for very long time. Little test for you: Put yourself in standard pushup position, hands shoulder width, legs also, and now lift one arm, but here comes the catch, lift one arm without any (no 1mm) shifting to opposite side, no move to other hand on the ground, no move legs and I mean any move even for 1mm. Just pushup position like a rock statue, now easy lift one arm. Try, no cheating. If you do it right, you can feel incredible amount of pressure in hole body just to hold the position on three fixed spots instead of four. Now, do the pushup with arm on the ground without change the position of the body. Beautiful, isn`t it ?

You described a perfect OAP, but describing something is different than actually doing it. I can describe a One arm handstand pushup: Kick up into handstand position, shift your weight on one arm, remove your other arm from the floor and slowly lower yourself until your head on the ground. If you do it right you will feel enormous pressure on your shoulder. Then press up under control back up to a One arm handstand, no cheating.

Yeah I can describe it, but I am far from being able to do it, and have yet to see anyone do it. It's like describing a unicorn. For a perfect OAP your working arm and legs have to literally be in line with each other, meaning your working arm should be right under your sternum. That's a one arm tricep press with 70% of your bodyweight, along with a whole lot of other factors that need to be taken into account such as balance.

Again, if you can direct me to a video of a perfect OAP you described, I will admit I was wrong and listen to everything you say.

I don't think it's possible to do an OAP without either straddling the legs or twisting the torso. It seems like you have to do one or the other because balance is a problem.

CalisthenicGod said:

You described a perfect OAP, but describing something is different than actually doing it. I can describe a One arm handstand pushup: Kick up into handstand position, shift your weight on one arm, remove your other arm from the floor and slowly lower yourself until your head on the ground. If you do it right you will feel enormous pressure on your shoulder. Then press up under control back up to a One arm handstand, no cheating.

Yeah I can describe it, but I am far from being able to do it, and have yet to see anyone do it. It's like describing a unicorn. For a perfect OAP your working arm and legs have to literally be in line with each other, meaning your working arm should be right under your sternum. That's a one arm tricep press with 70% of your bodyweight, along with a whole lot of other factors that need to be taken into account such as balance.

Again, if you can direct me to a video of a perfect OAP you described, I will admit I was wrong and listen to everything you say.

I did not mean to describe Oap, the test I describe here is a test for muscular cordination for many elite athletes from american football to individual sports. If you acomplish this and this is doable for sure if you put some work in it, you will remove the main obstacle for oap, and you will poses strength to keep the balance. Now, how many people do you know that put some serious work in oap and fight for it. Yea, me neither. It is not important to listening what I say, but ok, I practice this test for some time, things moving forward, so will see. Your words I perceive as a support. See very soon I hope.

Lekman said:

phrak said:

CalisthenicGod said:

I have yet to see a perfect One-Arm Push-up, only the wide-legged, torso twisting variants.

I find this silly. I am not very strong at all, and can do a this to a 2 foot high (approx) box. I imagine with very little extra strength, this would be doable. The BIGGEST issue for me is the core strength needed to prevent rotation.

I love your optimism. Wide legged with torso twisting one arm pushups and true one arm pushups are two completely different moves, almost nothing in common. It is doable after many months of hard specificity work. Your biggest issue is something that we all fighting for in most gymnastics exercises for very long time. Little test for you: Put yourself in standard pushup position, hands shoulder width, legs also, and now lift one arm, but here comes the catch, lift one arm without any (no 1mm) shifting to opposite side, no move to other hand on the ground, no move legs and I mean any move even for 1mm. Just pushup position like a rock statue, now easy lift one arm. Try, no cheating. If you do it right, you can feel incredible amount of pressure in hole body just to hold the position on three fixed spots instead of four. Now, do the pushup with arm on the ground without change the position of the body. Beautiful, isn`t it ?

I don't even find the "perfect" one arm push up support to be all that challenging, but I'm not even remotely close to being able to perform one push up in this position and I'm not so sure that they are all that important, but who knows? It will be possible when one of us puts up a video. Until then this movement is just a dream.

As for OAC progressions: If you can do an unassisted OAC you are F-ing strong. Not strong, not really strong. F-ING strong. If you can do sets of more than 3 perfect reps you are practically a pulling GOD. There is no purpose in looking for something harder than these until you're doing sets of 5-7 reps.

Uneven pull ups and chins can help you develop the grip strength you need but once you have that you're better off using pinkie and ring finger assists, and then just pinkie assists. At that point, and probably once you are ready to do assisted OAC to be honest, it is worth making a 10 dollar assisted pull up contraption with garage pulleys. I have made one and it is one of my best ideas of all time. A real Naterman original that works fantastically well. With this it is easy to run SSC with assisted OAC, because you know exactly how much assistance you have at all times and you are not altering the motion one bit. This is how you would build a proper OAC.

Lekman said:

I did not mean to describe Oap, the test I describe here is a test for muscular cordination for many elite athletes from american football to individual sports. If you acomplish this and this is doable for sure if you put some work in it, you will remove the main obstacle for oap, and you will poses strength to keep the balance. Now, how many people do you know that put some serious work in oap and fight for it. Yea, me neither. It is not important to listening what I say, but ok, I practice this test for some time, things moving forward, so will see. Your words I perceive as a support. See very soon I hope.

Look I am not trying to be rude or start an argument or anything, I was merely giving my opinion. So I apologize if I did sound like a tool. I think seiji makes a good point in saying you either straddle the legs or twist the torso, but not both. I will try to find video examples when I get back to my computer (I am on a trip in Hong Kong, typing everything on an IPhone). I worked on the OAP myself but I stopped because I question myself if it is really worth it and if the alleged "perfect" OAP is possible or even a realistic goal to shoot for and maybe going for planche pushups is a more practical goal. I want to do the perfect OAP as much as you do, and I hope your methods help you achieve that. When you do, post a video and show us the light.

slizzardman said:

I don't even find the "perfect" one arm push up support to be all that challenging, but I'm not even remotely close to being able to perform one push up in this position and I'm not so sure that they are all that important, but who knows? It will be possible when one of us puts up a video. Until then this movement is just a dream.

As for OAC progressions: If you can do an unassisted OAC you are F-ing strong. Not strong, not really strong. F-ING strong. If you can do sets of more than 3 perfect reps you are practically a pulling GOD. There is no purpose in looking for something harder than these until you're doing sets of 5-7 reps.

Uneven pull ups and chins can help you develop the grip strength you need but once you have that you're better off using pinkie and ring finger assists, and then just pinkie assists. At that point, and probably once you are ready to do assisted OAC to be honest, it is worth making a 10 dollar assisted pull up contraption with garage pulleys. I have made one and it is one of my best ideas of all time. A real Naterman original that works fantastically well. With this it is easy to run SSC with assisted OAC, because you know exactly how much assistance you have at all times and you are not altering the motion one bit. This is how you would build a proper OAC.

Yeah I wonder if achieving an OAP is really worth the time investment, and that if the time would be better spent working on the planche instead.

My friend can do 3 OAC each arm, he worked on the uneven pullups for several months along with close pullups. He tried an OAC one day and he got it (full rom). Granted he weighs only about 130 lbs so it is a lot easier for him, but still it is a solid achievement.

I am wondering where is a good place to add uneven pullups. Between Wide-L pullups and assisted OAC in BtGB? Also if you don't mind taking a look at my other thread on critiquing my routine, I'd appreciate it as I always regard your advice to be helpful and of high informational value.

I trained both a OAP and a OAC, I found the OAP to be significantly easier. Took me about 4-6 months to get a oap, where as it took me over 1.5 years to get a OAC. To add, I also tend to be a very poor presser and a much better puller. As a note my OAP was with body straight no twisting but I would lift the opposite leg up in the air to counteract the torso twisting (variation from Pavel's Naked Warrior Book). This is the closest that I felt I could get to a perfect OAP. I would agree with Seiji you either have to twist, straddle, lift one leg up in the air, or put the working arm higher up (above the shoulders, Bruce Lee did it this way).

As a comparison at the time of being able to do a OAP I was barely able to do a close tuck planche.

Here is a video of a girl doing a decent OAP:

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I have never seen a girl doing a legitimate one arm chin up (although I heard stories about circus performers).

CalisthenicGod said:

slizzardman said:

I don't even find the "perfect" one arm push up support to be all that challenging, but I'm not even remotely close to being able to perform one push up in this position and I'm not so sure that they are all that important, but who knows? It will be possible when one of us puts up a video. Until then this movement is just a dream.

As for OAC progressions: If you can do an unassisted OAC you are F-ing strong. Not strong, not really strong. F-ING strong. If you can do sets of more than 3 perfect reps you are practically a pulling GOD. There is no purpose in looking for something harder than these until you're doing sets of 5-7 reps.

Uneven pull ups and chins can help you develop the grip strength you need but once you have that you're better off using pinkie and ring finger assists, and then just pinkie assists. At that point, and probably once you are ready to do assisted OAC to be honest, it is worth making a 10 dollar assisted pull up contraption with garage pulleys. I have made one and it is one of my best ideas of all time. A real Naterman original that works fantastically well. With this it is easy to run SSC with assisted OAC, because you know exactly how much assistance you have at all times and you are not altering the motion one bit. This is how you would build a proper OAC.

Yeah I wonder if achieving an OAP is really worth the time investment, and that if the time would be better spent working on the planche instead.

My friend can do 3 OAC each arm, he worked on the uneven pullups for several months along with close pullups. He tried an OAC one day and he got it (full rom). Granted he weighs only about 130 lbs so it is a lot easier for him, but still it is a solid achievement.

I am wondering where is a good place to add uneven pullups. Between Wide-L pullups and assisted OAC in BtGB? Also if you don't mind taking a look at my other thread on critiquing my routine, I'd appreciate it as I always regard your advice to be helpful and of high informational value.

I am of course referring to "Paul Wade's" OAP variation. Regular ones are a joke. That one leg-one arm variation feels good, I like that. I think I will incorporate that. It feels like good unilateral work for the serratus and is easy to spot. Index finger and thumb is all I need do do a number of reps, so thanks guys! I like that one a lot.

As for uneven pull ups, I think that as soon as your grip is good enough you should slowly work them in. They really are a great way to slowly acclimate to the OAC and in my opinion a valuable step. They don't really belong IN the pull up progressions so much as beside them, you know what I mean? One arm work is totally different than two arm work. You need both.

slizzardman said:

CalisthenicGod said:

slizzardman said:

I am of course referring to "Paul Wade's" OAP variation. Regular ones are a joke. That one leg-one arm variation feels good, I like that. I think I will incorporate that. It feels like good unilateral work for the serratus and is easy to spot. Index finger and thumb is all I need do do a number of reps, so thanks guys! I like that one a lot.

As for uneven pull ups, I think that as soon as your grip is good enough you should slowly work them in. They really are a great way to slowly acclimate to the OAC and in my opinion a valuable step. They don't really belong IN the pull up progressions so much as beside them, you know what I mean? One arm work is totally different than two arm work. You need both.

Sorry to go a little off-topic, but should you work them in as a part of your warmup like the FSP's? I find it a little tricky to know when I should incorporate things like this because I don't know when it is a pull/press day. Therefore I can end up doing uneven pullup work on monday, and see it's a pull day the next day.

Hope someone could clear this out.

Maybe for just a few reps. You warm up should be moderate difficulty, which means not difficult but not ridiculously easy for the most part. Eventually things will be very easy. If these things aren't fairly easy for you then they do not belong in your warm up yet.

I have liked the one arm one leg version ever since I read about it by Pavel.

Still, I think her legs are a bit too wide, IMO. Well, for pushups at least. :twisted:

HAHAHA!

There was this one time where I was really hyped and filled with adrenaline. I could do 2 one arm chin-ups . Normally I can do 1.

HAHAHA you increased the cosmos at that time? I normally do sets of 1 rep of each arm, strict form, never tried do 2, maybe in a few months, i don't know... :oops:

Blairbob said:

I have liked the one arm one leg version ever since I read about it by Pavel.

Still, I think her legs are a bit too wide, IMO. Well, for pushups at least. :twisted:

Having used this for several weeks now I can tell you a few things. One, if you want to do this properly you're going to have your legs wide like hers for a good long while and you'll be using an off-hand spot as well. Two, I'm tired.