Started by barrett, July 11, 2011 · 12 Replies · 3,169 Views
a little background...
37 y/o, 5-10, 170, been training gymnastics for roughly 6 mos. the first month and a half-two months were kind of haphazard, as i was confused as to how to properly set up a program. about 4 mos. ago i began following the kilroy template, and added a few sets of the ring strength series on saturday. please hold nothing back in letting me know where i need to improve! looking forward to your responses!
3 things, number one is your muscle up, you are powering through the first part of it, just work on slowing it down. Number two is your back lever, first before I critique it you have a VERY sweet back lever! Nice and solid. However your palms are facing the wrong way, which while in competitive gymnastics it is acceptable to do either way. It is much harder and more beneficial to do it with your palms down, and if you do it with your palms down will eventually help you with your planche. last thing is about how you pull from BL to inverted hang, while you have it very nice and smooth try to arch your back heavily, this will help eventually if you ever start in swinging moves in gymnastics it will help your inlocates (http://www.drillsandskills.com/video/di ... ria001.mpg) And it is technically correct to arch your back heavily here!
Sorry got to go, bye! 
thanks, newguy. the mu's are still a work in progress; i'm working on slowing them down and straightening out the torso. the back lever advice was helpful, but disheartening: i just went out and tried to hold an adv. tuck bl with palms down, and could barely hold it for 3 sec! if i want a palms down bl, i'm going to have to start training again from the beginning, meaning static tuck bl's with palms down. oh well, it's the journey, right? but the bl realization brings me to a question...
i currently train the palms up bl for 30 sec. 3x a week as part of the fsp warm up. so, should i just substitute palm down tuck bl now to try and achieve the palms down bl? also, should i keep training the full lay palms down bl for maintenance like 1x a week?
Good strong work!
I did the same incorrect hand positioning on BL myself for a while until I realised, personally I dropped all BL with palms up and started from scratch palms down. It is so much better for elbow conditioning. Up to you how you integrate it though I suppose, couldn't hurt to keep doing the full lay palms up as that will help you maintain your body tension.
In your support position you really want to turn the rings out as much as possible.
In your front lever you want to focus quite hard on on retracting your scaps.
Move your rings back 6 inches and point your toes 
Keep up the great work!
thanks, breaks. yeah, the proximity of the rings to the house really limits some stuff i can do without crashing through that window in front of the rings set up! i'd like to set up a bar to mount the rings in the yard before the end of the summer; if i do i'll post the results in the equipment section.
anyway, in thinking about how i'm going to re-train the bl, i looked up slizzardman's you tube video on training statics. i think i'm going to have to start training bl from scratch, starting with german hangs. i've injured myself a few times on my already brief journey, and want to start correctly, dong things slowly from the start, to try and prevent injuries from happening again. watching him train his fl got me to thinking about my fl as well, and i came to the conclusion that you did: more scap retraction is needed. i'm doing what i would characterize as a flat tuck fl in the video, but i'm going to have to dial it back to a tuck to make sure the form is solid. also, i'm aware that i don't have the rings turned out in the proper support position. i'm capable of doing it, just got lazy there for a sec.
thanks again for your enlightening comments!
Contrary to what NewGuy said, it is better to do pull out of a BL with a straight body than arched body.
Interesting, why do you say this? I just asked my coach yesterday for conformation, and he said that "yes" it is correct to do it with an arched back.
Is it just a difference of training methods, or are you supposed to graduate to straight body after awhile? Hmm now I have to figure out which way to train it, my coaches way or your way???
Thanks for the help!
well if you look at the basic ring strength 1 video, the athlete lowers through a back lever and into a german hang before pulling back up. i wouldn't say his back during that sequence is *perfectly* straight, but it's pretty close to it. in the pictures of the athletes doing the half and full back pulls in the book (p. 146-47), they both have straight backs. in my effort to try and emulate those guys, i tried to maintain a straight back throughout the half bl pull.
as an aside, i would recommend to anyone reading this thread who has even the slightest bit of uncertainty about their form to post a video/picture here. in my zeal and desire for quick results, despite the numerous caveats everywhere on the board to be patient, i have rushed through performing fl and bl with incorrect form. it's not the end of the world, of course, but it is a setback. carelessness, arrogance, and blind dedication caused me to fail to see the back lever should be trained with palms down instead of palms up as i do in the video. not a total loss, b/c it took a while to build the strength necessary for my bl and i'm happy with my progress on it, but all the while i thought i was conditioning my biceps for planche and harder ring strength elements. i was not. today i will begin re-training it from scratch, starting with 30 sec. of german hang work and eventually building up to a minute of it worked consistently throughout the weeks if this ssc. in time, i'll have the palms down bl, and i'll be sure to post my video when i do!
as for my fl, my back is considerably rounded in the video. i incorrectly tried to 'fast track' my fl progress. 'the tuck fl is too easy for me,' i thought. 'no strain or struggle. move on to the next variation.' breaks pointed out the rounded back in my video so i went back to btgb and he was right. in my fervor to gain the skill asap, i rushed through the progressions with a rounded back, despite coach mentioning numerous times in the book in the sections on fl to keep a flattened back. so i went out and tried the tuck fl with my legs about 45 degrees from my body and couldn't flatten my back. once again, to the book. coach says to pull the legs in closer, retract the scaps. i do it, look at the video i took of my fl, and back is almost completely flat. so i will begin re-training my fl today, 'regressing' to a more tighter tuck.
moral of the story? to paraphrase coach, patience and perseverance are potent tools. had i been more patient i probably wouldn't have made these mistakes. it's pretty humbling because now that i re-read the book, despite all the mentions of how to do the exercise properly, i still was not doing them properly! it's cool though, because before this experience, patience and perseverance being potent tools were just platitudes, some cliche that had no meaning for me. now, having actually experienced the how a lack of patience can hurt you in this type of training, i have actually learned, albeit the hard way, to truly be patient!!
thanks to you guys for helping me fix things!!
Yup its a lesson we all learn, but you actually learned it quite early! which is a good thing
indeed he does. so which way is correct? straight back or arched?
I'm not sure, I am pretty sure my coach is, but I also trust blairbob...???!
When you arch your body, you are effectively making it shorter since it is no longer in a straight line. Rounding and hollowing have the same effect as would piking or tucking.
For a swinging inlocate, I would prefer the tight arch position. However, it is a thing of gradual reduction. At first it starts with a big gross movement/action aka big arch and slowly refines into being straight. This same principle is used for a skill like front layout.
At first we want the athlete to accelerate the heel drive over the top through the flip. Eventually they will refine it into a straight body. Same thing for handspring front vaults, swing to HS on PB.
Listen to your coach. For strength, I would prefer the straight body position. Mind that pulling out of a german hang is difficult and thus why arching it is easier.
During the video, the gymnast in question also flexes his knees and opens them a bit.
So in the end it sort of depends what we are striving for.
Okay thanks, this helps