Problem with planche

That's a good effort.

As you get stronger, try to keep the hips up just a bit more, hips and shoulders level. You start off there, but the lower a bit.

Elbows locked out, the elbows are slightly bent and are constantly wavering from more bent to less bent. There are a couple of moments when they are completely straight in there, so that's a great sign that you will eventually get there.

I think I have similar problem, how do you raise hip level? lean more forward?

You can definitely lift into it, but people don't know the muscle activation.

You need to be lifting your rib cage as far off the ground as you can, pressing your head towards the wall as hard as you can, and also pressing your hands towards the wall in front of you as hard as you can. That's tricky to do, and is best learned with push ups to begin with. This makes push ups incredibly difficult when done with a hollow body, both because of the coordination and because the right muscles will all be working at the same time. Starting off this way seems to be critical to success, and failure to start this way and slowly build into PPP with the same form is almost certainly why so many people don't seem to get very much out of PPP. I am almost positive that if you build up to doing PPP with maximum forward lean AND correct muscle activation for sets of 10 reps (or 30-40s total TUT without losing form) that you will, at the very least, have the strength to do multiple perfect straddle planche push ups.

Just the regular push ups, without much of any PPP component, have me doing tuck planche push ups again.

This is why that original hollow body plank that is in the pre-requisite thread is so important to do correctly... this becomes your push up form for all future variations.

Zach Armijo said:

You are correct in that you can press into planche, but as most beginners and people having problems with their planche, pushing up with incorrect activation if their limiting factor, or seems to be. I think it is easier to learn the correct planche position when leaning first with solid protraction and correct hollow body form. Like you said with the PPP and maximum lean as well as PL lean. Once you learn what the proper activation and form feels like, then you can get into it however you like.

I agree, it is pointless to try and build strength with incorrect body shape. Priority has to be given to shape first.

Strict attention to this is giving me really good results, much faster than I thought it would.

Joshua Naterman said:

This is why that original hollow body plank that is in the pre-requisite thread is so important to do correctly... this becomes your push up form for all future variations.

Somehow I've missed this. Do you mean that the plank should always be done in a hollow in the pre-reqs or are there two different planks (one in hollow and one without)?

millhill said:

Joshua Naterman said:

This is why that original hollow body plank that is in the pre-requisite thread is so important to do correctly... this becomes your push up form for all future variations.

Somehow I've missed this. Do you mean that the plank should always be done in a hollow in the pre-reqs or are there two different planks (one in hollow and one without)?

For GB purposes, planks should be hollow and in a planche shape.

There are most certainly non-planche shaped planks, but even when scaps are retracted the hollow shape should be maintained. This stretches the pec minor muscle pretty strongly and if you are tight you will feel a stretch in what seems to be the inside of the shoulder. Slight protraction will relieve the stretch, and I find that this stretch is best done on the elbows with forearms parallel with each other and elbows slightly wider than shoulder width (for proper seating of the humeral head in the shoulder socket as one retracts further into the stretch).

This is my go-to stretch for my shoulder currently, along with one other. It helps immensely, but requires maintenance. There is a huge, huge difference between my right and left scaps... I seriously have at least 2" greater ROM with the left scap than the right. That's the root of my shoulder issues, from faulty scapular movement to shoulder pain (almost completely gone now, I am glad to say) to difficulty building actual shoulder strength.

Ok, thanks JN.

I have been working at it and been attempting to lean as far as possible

will try on paralletes soon (no rings)

Hi.

When it comes to planche i'm pretty sure ive gotten the hollow body (spine position), protraction and squeezing the shoulders/elbows together, but the lat activation/shoulder depression seem to beyond. The only when i can feel my lats when in a lean is my pressing my hands back towards my hips and if i did that in a real planche obviously i would fall flat on my face. I've also tried to push my head far forward without feeling it.

Some advice would be fantastic, since getting pretty irritated not being able to do anything other than scap push ups for planche.

Thanks.

You don't have to press back, but the hands will be pressing down towards the hips. I don't think you can really feel this happening until your hands are basically at your belly button. Doing this on the wall is a good place to start.

This is part of why planche leans are really important... you want to build up to where you can get close to the final planche position just so you will feel the lats lock in place.

When serratus anterior fires it can feel like the lats, but it won't go down to the hip. It will be on the mid and lower rib area and will almost feel like your ribs are contracting.

It is possible that with tuck and even flat tuck you will only feel serratus anterior.

No permission to view the attachments.

*facepalm* I will let Cory know.

What could be the problem with my planche as I always get this pain short pain (few seconds) after the set. This happens with both planche leans and adv. frog stand. The pain is on the front side of the shoulder between the anterior deltoid and pectoralis. I dont feel anything during the set but after I release tension there is pain in both shoulders that lasts about 2 seconds.

I try to protract the scapula and tense the lats and do all the correct thing but this pain continues to be there no matter what I do. Do I simply have weak shoulder/serratus or what could be the problem?

Joshua Naterman said:

You don't have to press back, but the hands will be pressing down towards the hips. I don't think you can really feel this happening until your hands are basically at your belly button. Doing this on the wall is a good place to start.

This is part of why planche leans are really important... you want to build up to where you can get close to the final planche position just so you will feel the lats lock in place.

When serratus anterior fires it can feel like the lats, but it won't go down to the hip. It will be on the mid and lower rib area and will almost feel like your ribs are contracting.

It is possible that with tuck and even flat tuck you will only feel serratus anterior.

When you say press back, do you mean depress the scapulae? What do you also mean by pressing down towards the hips? I remember Dillon saying that you're supposed to depress the scaps in the planche, but I've seen a number of people and gymnasts that don't have them fully depressed.

I can do planche with scaps fully protracted but not fully depressed and planche with fully depressed scaps but not fully protracted. It seems like full depression limits maximal protraction and vice-versa even when you do it while standing up. Sometimes full protraction feels easier and sometimes full depression feels easier, but now I find full protraction to be better consistently and more comfortable. Sometimes I just don't give a damn about scapular activation and just focus pressing down and forward (basic planche motion) and can still do it comfortably. So is one activation the correct one than the other wrong or does it not matter between the two?

B1214N said:

When you say press back, do you mean depress the scapulae? What do you also mean by pressing down towards the hips? I remember Dillon saying that you're supposed to depress the scaps in the planche, but I've seen a number of people and gymnasts that don't have them fully depressed.

I can do planche with scaps fully protracted but not fully depressed and planche with fully depressed scaps but not fully protracted. It seems like full depression limits maximal protraction and vice-versa even when you do it while standing up. Sometimes full protraction feels easier and sometimes full depression feels easier, but now I find full protraction to be better consistently and more comfortable. Sometimes I just don't give a damn about scapular activation and just focus pressing down and forward (basic planche motion) and can still do it comfortably. So is one activation the correct one than the other wrong or does it not matter between the two?

You will be somewhere between full depression and full protraction. In tucks you will be more fully protracted and in full lay you will be more depressed but still not fully depressed (most likely). It is the act of trying that matters.

It is likely going to change with each person, but I believe that the protraction is the most important thing. You will always be protracted, regardless of the depression. You will never be fully protracted and fully depressed at the same time, the muscle attachments don't allow that, so don't try to do the impossible Just concentrate on the protraction. The depression will come as needed (most likely) as you lean more and more.

Dillon's Planche article is now here:

Joshua Naterman said:

You will be somewhere between full depression and full protraction. In tucks you will be more fully protracted and in full lay you will be more depressed but still not fully depressed (most likely). It is the act of trying that matters.

It is likely going to change with each person, but I believe that the protraction is the most important thing. You will always be protracted, regardless of the depression. You will never be fully protracted and fully depressed at the same time, the muscle attachments don't allow that, so don't try to do the impossible Just concentrate on the protraction. The depression will come as needed (most likely) as you lean more and more.

Thanks! I will focus more on full protraction instead since that's more comfortable for me now and that's what you recommend. I would probably do some with the full or active depression too since I don't want to possibly lose proficiency with that activation.