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Started by Svend, April 21, 2011 · 18 Replies · 9,116 Views
Hey buff guys!
I've been wondering for quite some time what the correct ROM in front lever rows would be? My advanced tuck FL rows feels very solid but I am not able to pull my body all the way to the bar/rings - there alway seems to be about 10 cm of space in between. The same thing goes for my tuck FL rows. Am I lacking strength somehow or would what I am doing be considered full ROM?
Thank you!
There will always be a space left. I have never seen anyone doing front lever rows be able to go all the way up (gymnasts and enthusiasts). Even people with very strong front levers like Marcus Bondi on youtube and Cisco don't come close. 90 degrees without piking or bending is quite hard and considered proper technique.
I believe the reason most (you never know someone out there might be able to do it) can't do it is that the retractors are the weak point as they are largely responsible for the last portion of the movement. Someone with beastly rhomboids and other scapular retractors should, in theory, be able to do so.
Most people's arms are too long and torso too thin to touch chest to the bar without losing form. You can't take your elbows behind your back without internally rotating and that's not a good habit, which is why unless your hands are touching your torso when you do a floor bench press you are never going to touch your chest to the bar during FL row. Leverage is just too low and it would not be a healthy practice.
I'm thinking the extra ROM that he doesn't have is when the movement would begin internally rotate his shoulder. Does that seem about right?
That makes a lot of sense, guys! Thanks!
Saw that my comment appeared right after Slizz's post. That answers that!
slizzardman said:Most people's arms are too long and torso too thin to touch chest to the bar without losing form. You can't take your elbows behind your back without internally rotating and that's not a good habit, which is why unless your hands are touching your torso when you do a floor bench press you are never going to touch your chest to the bar during FL row. Leverage is just too low and it would not be a healthy practice.
I am a bit confused, why would have to internally rotate to get your elbows behind your back? wouldn't you accomplish that by retracting the scapula and shoulders?
Once your scaps are retracted all further backwards movement of the upper arm will be initiated by the lats and teres major, both of which are incredibly powerful internal rotators. These are going to be resisted by the much smaller infraspinatus and teres minor. Internal rotation is a foregone conclusion, as is scapular protraction in most cases. Watch yourself on video and you'll see it. You can see it in heavy cable rows too. It's a part of how we are built. It is not necessary to touch the chest to the bar to use the exercise for strength development in this case.
slizzardman said:Once your scaps are retracted all further backwards movement of the upper arm will be initiated by the lats and teres major, both of which are incredibly powerful internal rotators. These are going to be resisted by the much smaller infraspinatus and teres minor. Internal rotation is a foregone conclusion, as is scapular protraction in most cases. Watch yourself on video and you'll see it. You can see it in heavy cable rows too. It's a part of how we are built. It is not necessary to touch the chest to the bar to use the exercise for strength development in this case.
Hmm..this requires some experimenting with 
.
I know Ido recommends going to a 90 degree bent elbow for the FL rows
I also do and teach thenm like that. It's usually the max ROM you can get.before the internal rotation magic that Slizz mentioned starts happening
Is this the same for regular foot-supported rows as well?
Yes, but I would like to take this moment to amend what I said about the internal rotation: You must not allow any scapular rotation or protraction, there must be full retraction. There WILL be internal rotation but it will all be in the shoulder socket. The scapular should not move at all outside of retraction. Most people will elevate the scapula and let it wing a little at the back, and that is the kind of shoulder rolling that I incorrectly called internal rotation. We MUST avoid that.
Thanks a lot slizzardman.
Man I really need to get a hold of a cam corder to make sure I have the correct technique for these then.
I hope it is clear that the retraction statement applies to the row during the concentric contraction, obviously you're going to have to let the shoulder blades go forward as you lower back down!
Devin Sosa aka Zef Aka zakaveli does Fl close grip pull up full rom, he touchs his hands with his stomach :shock:
I can't see the video on FB!!! Is there a youtube link, or do I need to friend him or what?
how retracted do the scaps need to be? cos i can't get the feeling of them touching like in a full rom chin/pull up or like db/bb bent over rows
anhkun said:how retracted do the scaps need to be? cos i can't get the feeling of them touching like in a full rom chin/pull up or like db/bb bent over rows
Just focus on getting them as far back as you can. Your hands may be too close together to allow full retraction, nothing wrong with that. The activation is what matters the most.