1RM Deadlift Test

Razz said:

Hmm so Alexx you are saying that lifting close to 1RM with a rounded spine is not gonna make you more injury prone than lifting with a straight spine? Because what I see in those videos is bad form in my eyes but I may be wrong.

No no the spine rounding is a very separate technique/issue I was strictly referring to hip height.

The spine rounding issue is not necessarily bad technique either though and something that is done on purpose by certain powerlifters. It is in no way similar to a beginner rounding the lower back and doing all the lifting with their lower back without pushing the hips back. The reason for upper back/Thoracic region rounding is two fold - 1. it shortens the range of motion 2. It engages the upper back musculature more in the lift (whenever a muscle is stretched and contracted it is activated more). The reason why it is an acceptable technique is because the thoracic spine isn't the lower back it much sturdier with quite a bit more musculature to support it. Having said that it is something that requires a great deal of muscle control and is in no way shape or form similar to when a beginner rounds his back.

Also, this is not a technique that would be recommended for the average strength training trainee simply because it shifts the focus away from the legs and to the upper back which is often not the goal. If you are a powerlifter you don't care what you are working you just want to lift the most weight.

Bob Peoples (700 + deadlift RAW at 180) Konstantin Konstantinov (900 + deadlift RAW at 260+) and quite a few other notable powerlifters use this technique without any injuries. I am not recommending or defending the technique I am simply stating the fact that it is widely used and to brush it off as simply bad form would be ignorant when presented with the data.

Here is a picture of a guy's back who shift the focus to his upper back when he lifts, not the heavy upper back development and very little lower back hypertrophy:

I'd like to add deadlifting odd object. Besides a straight bar, practically speaking, you will never deadlift with a perfect neutral spine.

I think this one on the picture is Chineese olympic lifter.

I didn't mean to start anything by my comment AlexX.

I just blurted that out without a ton of thought. Based on a quote from Rippetoe. And as it turns out, i got it wrong on this one...

Starting Strength -

For the majority that can benefit from this important exercise, the deadlift should be an

essential part of training: an important assistance exercise for the squat, and especially the clean

(for which it is an important introductory lesson in position and pulling mechanics), as well as a

way to train the mind to do things that are hard.

There are two ways to perform the deadlift used in competition: the conventional, with the

feet inside the grip, and the "sumo" style, with the feet outside the grip. Good sumo deadlifters

typically have long torsos relative to the legs and are good squatters. This version of the lift allows

for a more upright back angle so that leg strength may be used more efficiently (fig. 4-3). Since

our purpose is the development of low back strength through the effective use of exercises that

work these muscles, the sumo deadlift will not be used in this program.

In other words, higher hips strengthen back more (as long as the back isn't rounded) which i think we all agreed on already.

And as he shows here if getting the hips lower by hyperextending is not desirable either.

Figure 4-17. The correct starting position for the lower back is normal anatomical arch (A). A hyperextended

lordotic curve (B) is both unnecessary and counterproductive, as well as being difficult for people of normal

flexibility to attain. Just be aware that a hyperextended position is not actually desirable, but that it may be

necessary for an inflexible person to try to hyperextend just to get into a correct arch.

Gregor said:

I think this one on the picture is Chineese olympic lifter.

Actually to my knowledge it's Olexsandr Kutcher a powerlifter with a 750+ deadlift at 165. I think an Olympic weightlifter would typically have more of a lower back development to go with his/her upper back.

RandomHavoc said:

I'd like to add deadlifting odd object. Besides a straight bar, practically speaking, you will never deadlift with a perfect neutral spine.

Funny that you mention that, there was a study done by the NSCA last year on strongman training and spinal loads. The original hypothesis was that stone lifting would show the highest loads. In reality after all the tests, stone lifting had one of the LEAST loads on the spine. This is because the lifter typically wraps the spine around the stone and due to the center of mass it doesn't create very large spinal loads. The loads would be much higher if the lifter tried to lift it with a straight back, so in essence you could say that lifting a stone with a rounded back is much better technique in terms of what you can lift and safety.

Mr Brady said:

I didn't mean to start anything by my comment AlexX.

I just blurted that out without a ton of thought. Based on a quote from Rippetoe. And as it turns out, i got it wrong on this one...

Starting Strength -

For the majority that can benefit from this important exercise, the deadlift should be an

essential part of training: an important assistance exercise for the squat, and especially the clean

(for which it is an important introductory lesson in position and pulling mechanics), as well as a

way to train the mind to do things that are hard.

There are two ways to perform the deadlift used in competition: the conventional, with the

feet inside the grip, and the "sumo" style, with the feet outside the grip. Good sumo deadlifters

typically have long torsos relative to the legs and are good squatters. This version of the lift allows

for a more upright back angle so that leg strength may be used more efficiently (fig. 4-3). Since

our purpose is the development of low back strength through the effective use of exercises that

work these muscles, the sumo deadlift will not be used in this program.

In other words, higher hips strengthen back more (as long as the back isn't rounded) which i think we all agreed on already.

And as he shows here if getting the hips lower by hyperextending is not desirable either.

Figure 4-17. The correct starting position for the lower back is normal anatomical arch (A). A hyperextended

lordotic curve (B) is both unnecessary and counterproductive, as well as being difficult for people of normal

flexibility to attain. Just be aware that a hyperextended position is not actually desirable, but that it may be

necessary for an inflexible person to try to hyperextend just to get into a correct arch.

It's cool, I didn't feel like you were starting anything just wanted to present my point of view . I didn't post to say that this is how things and you are wrong, I simply wanted to present a different point of view/possibility for the OP.