Not another pullup sequence question!!

Guys

I do not wish to invoke the 'Coach Sommer Death Stare' or a palm strike to the face, but I need to ask this question

The Pullup sequence suggests that you do not move on until you've mastered the earlier progressions......and i know we say 'don't skip progressions'.......BUT my L-sit time i feel is really inhibiting my progression with this (i can only manage an L-sit maximum time of 10 seconds)

Pull ups with arms shoulder width apart are easy for me to do x5 perfect form. Would people suggest just raising my knees and/or widening my grip in progressions? Or would people suggest that on getting to the bottom of the hang that I let my legs drop for time and then raise them up to L-sit again and continue to pull up? ....Or added weight - which option is better?

I feel this is really impeding the progression of my pulling strength. I'm sure other people are having the same issue that are not there yet with their Lsits. Answers on a postcard please

Do you mean that you cant do full l-sit pullups yet? If this is the case I would try them in a tuck, and if that is too easy, a low or slightly straddled l and just improve height slowly

THe most important thing with pull ups is to work a VARIETY of grips. In GYMNASTICS I would guess that part of the benefit of doing L-variations is that you learn to keep that position and develop very specific body awareness that plays directly into being able to properly execute various elements. As far as basic pull ups go, there are straight body and L variants of EVERYTHING.

First master the straight body stuff. For example: Since you can do easy shoulder width pull ups for 5 reps you may be ready to start doing those in whatever variant of an L you can. You should ALSO be working on 1.5x shoulder width pull ups. If those are not possible, just move your hands one hand width out from where they are, so 3-5 inches out from where each hand is currently. Get to where those are as easy as your normal pull ups (which you should STILL be doing, and if you can't do a full L start working on a tuck, but do 1 set of straight body each pull up workout for warm up at least) for a month or two and move another hand width out. Keep doing that until you have gotten to 1.5-2x shoulder width. Once your arms are at a 45 degree from your body there really isn't any benefit to going wider. Once you have achieved at least 1.5x shoulder width for sets of 5 reps (with 60s or less rest) then go for the L variation, again working from whatever your capability is and progressing towards a proper L.

Do not neglect chin ups. These too have straight body and L variations, and you can (and should) do close grip and shoulder width.

So, Don, does that mean you cannot do the L pullups in supinated or pronated grip? Obviously, you should be working your L if it's your "goat".

For shoulder strength, you could consider weighting your pullups if you want to focus on that.

Since we're asking pullup questions here I'll ask a couple as well. First, my max chinup is something like BW+160 lbs, but my best pullup is like BW+135 lbs, is this difference in pulling strength bad? And secondly, is it bad that my elbows come forward on wide grip pullups?

Slizz, nf46, blairbob - thanks guys

I can do a maximum of 3 supinated L-pull ups (palms facing towards me?) and 2 pronated L-pull ups (palms facing away?) before my L-sit gives up the ghost.

Yes the L-sit is definitely my 'Goat' and i'm tackling that with my statics workout, currently working on low L-sits for 10 seconds x 6. What am i saying? I have quite a lot of beef (or goat) with a lot of the exercises, especially the statics because i'm relatively new to doing this type of work.

What's the benefit of doing close grip chin ups? I assumed as per coach's book that once an exercise becomes easy, discard it for the more difficult variation? And just use an easier version for the warm up set... 8)

I can't help but notice that you haven't mentioned your pull up volume beyond being able to do 5 easily.

Pull ups are one of those exercises where the do 5 reps and move to the next progression rule doesn't necessarily apply. In any case you also need to build your L-sit and in this program its as important as the pull up.

As a form of assistance work i'm doing the program that Slizz spelled out to you as well. The program is given in all its glory here:

http://gymnasticbodies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2719&p=17839&hilit=close+grip#p17839

I'm also experimenting with some ways to create more volume by doing high reps low intensity pull downs to muscle up position, using a stretch band. And doing the 'x-rep- method of after hitting a my last rep doing a number of partial roms off the hanging position.

I think 10 being easy is the bare minimum, but 20 + isn't at all unusual here.

Pull ups are a real staple I'm not so sure you need to worry onto the next progression until you've got the l-sit down and pull up volume up.

Apologies in advance if i'm making an incorrect assumption about your pull-up volume.

Mr Brady your wisdom proceeds you :wink:

Yes i've been focussing on no more than 5 reps per set, not testing for a max and generally up until now this has been my workout twice a week (no wonder i've been progressing so slowly!) - one set for each.

Shoulder width normal pullups = 5 perfect reps

L-chins (supinated grip) shoulder width = 4 reasonable reps

L-pullups (pronated) 2/3 reps

L-pullups (pronated) 2 reps

so 4 sets in all, max 14 pull ups in all.

Man I really need to come to these seminars and just absorb as much info as possible!! That plan from Slizz looks awesome...I'll definitely be going through that. Do you think there's a need for another 'collection' section e.g 'A collection of slizzard man and other Moderator's essays?' There are just lots of gems of workouts that can only be found if they're pointed out or you scour through. Just an idea :wink:

Maybe someone already has a list of helpful links? :?:

I have yet to make a bunch of stickies that really do need to be made. As I get my life more organized I will be doing this over the course of the rest of this year.

Watch out with too many stickies, they fill up like half the first page in some forums. Maybe organize a sticky thread in each forum or something... Similar to the 'Coach sommers essays' thread.

It's going to be more of a single "what you need to know" type thing, with the basics for FSP and FBE stuff laid out in getting started; all the MU and pull up-related info will be in an article in basic strength; same for swinging dips, senders, squat jumps, clap push ups, etc. laid out in the dynamic strength forum, etc. They will be in a format similar to the nutrition thread. I am hoping to collect these together and get them in a format where most people can read and educate themselves. I do not know how much discussion there will be in each of them. Too much becomes distracting.

Perfect

I had a thread like that Sliz, but I've tried not updating it with what I do now as it's directly from the seminar.

The pullup workout is interesting. I like just doing a pullup ladder like the HS progression ladder or just a volume pullup ladder as I'd like to up my pullup numbers. Basically, a ladder with small rests in between. I've done them twice lately and noticed the numbers went up on the 2nd time. Sometimes, I do it with dips. The 2nd time there was far less DOMS than the first time it was done with pullups or dips and I did roughly the same number in 1/2 the rounds.

I'm still a bit wary on the pullup progression ladder as my left elbow doesn't seem to like pronated pullups last time I tried to start doing them in L or wide arm.

Always adding some warmup variants would be an easy way to sneak in more volume, a bit like Wendler's 5-3-1. There may only be 3 work sets but there is the warm-up sets that add to total work done.

Lavastine, what you see with the pronated and supinated pullups is common.