Unidentified shoulder issue

Sorry, I know this is a long post :oops:

Started with BtGB 11 months ago. Never had any problems or aches or anything, always doing things slow and steady (just at the end of my 3rd cycle, where it should have been between 4th & 6th). 2-3 weeks ago my shoulders started to act funny.

I hurt my left shoulder some 2 years ago when trying to learn HeSPU on my own. My doctor said I overloaded the ligament and that I should rest it for a while. So I did nothing for 6 months and then started doing Pavel's Naked warrior for some 8 months before switching to BtGB. That hurt left shoulder always felt strange and kinda weaker then it should be, but it went away as I started to use Ido's shoulder routines. The only relict of that incident was that sometimes during planching I felt like my left shoulder is trying harder and getting tired faster than the right one, but overall it was getting better in giant steps. Before it started hurting few weeks ago, it was 99% fine. Now, it hurts badly only 2-3 second AFTER planching. During planching, it's ok. As soon as I come down from planche and my muscles stop contracting, it hurts for few seconds and then stops. It's not the joint that hurts, it's deltoid, but more from anterior side.

Right shoulder, on the other side, was healthy and problem-free till few weeks ago. It just started to feel very strange during handstand. It doesn't hurt; it feels like I have to rotate it a while till it "clicks" back. Of course, that "click" never happens, and it feels like this all the time. Left shoulder hurts only few seconds after doing planche, but I feel this discomfort in my right shoulder constantly since it first appeared. Again, it's not the joint that hurts; it comes from the deltoid.

It's important to notice that both my shoulders started hurting after almost 3 months of SSC, so it's not like I tried something above my abilities and hurt myself.

Few possible reasons come to my mind:

1. Bad posture - I realized recently I have really bad posture, my shoulders are always pointing up and forward and I'm hunching a bit. When trying deliberately to hold my shoulders down and backwards like normal people, my planche either hurts less or doesn't hurt at all. It is, however, possible I am pushing my shoulders down too much as planche becomes way harder. Right shoulder feels better when I try to push floor away from me during the handstand, discomfort is almost absent. Again, I was doing planche and handstand in SSC 3 months before the shoulders started to hurt.

2. Volume - I was doing my SSC for 3 months, 2 times a week during the summer due to the going to the beach and summer activities. I decided to go for one extra month of 3 times a week (this month) to cement the progress. Everything I do in this SSC feels easy by now, but again, shoulders started to hurt few weeks ago.

3. Structural imbalances - I noticed my pulling strength is developing rapidly in comparison to my pushing strength. I'm doing L pull ups, flat tuck rows and something between reverse chin-up and reverse muscle-up, while my push ups are stucked on hands at hip level since February and my dips were a total waste of time for the last few moths because I was doing them completely wrong due to the bad posture. Only my partial ROM HeSPU is ok, but still...

4. Hand position - I was placing my hands less than shoulder wide before. It seems shoulder wide or just slightly wider relieves the discomfort. This goes for both planche and handstand.

I'm doing Ido's shoulder routines and Coach's wrist series during the cool down. Maybe doing them as a apart of the warm up could help?

Any advice is welcome.

Adriano said:

1. Bad posture - I realized recently I have really bad posture, my shoulders are always pointing up and forward and I'm hunching a bit.

This is your #1 priority to fix. You will be doomed to a very long string of injuries if you do not. There is no getting around this. I HIGHLY recommend getting Pete Egoscue's book "Pain Free" and doing what it says. It is a very easy program and the book will teach you a) how to identify and fix the issues you have and b) how to keep them from ever coming back.

2. Volume - I was doing my SSC for 3 months, 2 times a week during the summer due to the going to the beach and summer activities. I decided to go for one extra month of 3 times a week (this month) to cement the progress. Everything I do in this SSC feels easy by now, but again, shoulders started to hurt few weeks ago.

3. Structural imbalances - I noticed my pulling strength is developing rapidly in comparison to my pushing strength. I'm doing L pull ups, flat tuck rows and something between reverse chin-up and reverse muscle-up, while my push ups are stucked on hands at hip level since February and my dips were a total waste of time for the last few moths because I was doing them completely wrong due to the bad posture. Only my partial ROM HeSPU is ok, but still...

Your shoulders are rolling forward at the top of all your pull ups and chins, aren't they? That will be you reinforcing the bad posture and shoulder strength imbalance. Having that strength to roll forward is important, but you must be able to do just as many pull ups with full retraction at the top as well. This imbalance across the shoulder girdle is your #2 priority. Even though your pulling is stronger than your pulling I believe you will find that your scapular muscles are way behind in development compared to your lats and biceps. You will also find out that your chest and anterior deltoid, along with the biceps, are very tight. You need to stretch those, it is very important. That is half of the formula for relieving unnecessary pressure on the shoulder. The other half is highly developed scapular muscles.

4. Hand position - I was placing my hands less than shoulder wide before. It seems shoulder wide or just slightly wider relieves the discomfort. This goes for both planche and handstand.

I'm doing Ido's shoulder routines and Coach's wrist series during the cool down. Maybe doing them as a apart of the warm up could help?

I don't know how much hand placement played into it, though I believe it definitely makes a difference, but do not mistake the relief from pain in the wider hand stance to be anything but a temporary relief. Until you fix priority 1 and 2 you will be more or less permanently limited in your progress and will almost certainly experience lots of injuries over the years.

I will surely look for Egoscue's book. The problem is I'm literally scraping all I got for the rent money, so I'm not in the position to spend money easily these days.

What else can I do for scapular development besides Ido's rutines?

Thanks for answering

BTW I was to do 50% intensity workout tomorrow and end cycle testing on Saturday. Any advice concerning that matter?

Don't do anything that makes your shoulder feel bad, and start scapular retraction tomorrow! I will put some videos up this week to explain how to do this because it's a lot of typing to explain and a video will be more useful

Thx for advices and that shoulder stretching video slizz! I started practicing scapular retraction immediately as you suggested and I was shocked! That 50% intensity session combined with right posture and scapular retraction during exercises actually had therapeutic effect on my shoulders, even planching! My shoulders are getting better and better daily. Virtually all the pain and discomfort has almost disappeared during the last 7 days! There is a downside also My FSP times are lower when holding scapulas tight and my shoulders in right position, especially planche and FL. These were my stats when I started my last SSC:

floor L-sit - 25s

flat tuck BL - 30s

tuck planche - 24s

tuck FL - 24s

wall HS - 65s

These are my end cycle stats from tuesday:

floor L-sit - 31s

flat tuck BL - 40s

tuck planche - 21s

tuck FL - 21s

wall HS - 111s

Keep in mind I was holding my shoulders wrong before, like this

where I should have been doing this (and I am doing it now)

The guy on the pictures is doing bench press, but you get the picture. I keep my scapulas squeezed together now during everything I do, which automatically keeps my shoulders where they should be. I'm not aching and in pain anymore, but everything seems so much harder when holding my shoulders right.

I guess I'll spend the next 8 weeks repairing what I've damaged and misused this last cycle. And I was really looking forward to longer hold times :cry:

P.S. Just to be sure, am I supposed to keep my scapulas retracted during FSPs? Because if I don't, my shoulders automatically get in the wrong position.

Adriano said:

P.S. Just to be sure, am I supposed to keep my scapulas retracted during FSPs? Because if I don't, my shoulders automatically get in the wrong position.

protracted during planche

retracted during FL

manna and l-sit you also want an open chest but you don't want to let your shoulders sink in, push actively down.

straddle-l and BL i'm not sure.

Yep, you do not want to be retracted during planche!

I am glad you are feeling better! I don't know about BL either, but in straddle L you're going to be pressing down hard as well as protracting a bit.

OK

protracted during planche makes my left shoulder hurt where I hurt it 2 years ago when trying to learn HS on my own :x

am I supposed to do prehab/rehab work before or after working out? or is it irrelevant?

Don't work anything that hurts. Doing prehab/rehab before and after every training session is a good idea.

Exactly. If you're feeling pain that means there is still inflammation and injury present, which is not surprising. You haven't had anywhere near enough time to make a proper recovery, so it makes sense that you still feel pain.

As for the rehab, in my opinion you should definitely A) abandon planche for now and B) have one day each week where you are very high volume on the rehab. Remember, rehab is always easy for the most part. If it is hard it should not be because you are not strong enough but rather because your body is not familiar with a particular movement yet. You should never be doing less than 10 reps, and they should all have at least a 1-2s concentric AND eccentric contraction, each. You will also benefit from short term ibuprofen along with inserting fish oil into your daily food regimen. This is all very important to do. Finally, cryotherapy is very important! Hot, cold, rest, repeat. usually 20m, 20m, 20m but you could do hot cold hot cold rest repeat as 10, 10, 10 ,10 ,20. I think you'll do better with the longer times, personally.

funny thing is frog stand doesn't hurt at all

should I keep doing it or just back off any planche work?

OK I'm confused now. I'm testing all over again with right scapulae position AND not letting my shoulders sink. It seems that letting my shoulders sink in was/is my limiting factor with pressing exercises.

Just tried planching and it didn't hurt at all because I did something I didn't try before: actively pressing down as hard as I can. Every single static exercise that includes pressing down (HS, l-sit, planche) was making my shoulders hurt before probably because I always let my shoulders sink in (together with all-time bad posture). Felt no pain at all now after pressing the floor actively. Not even discomfort or "something is wrong" kind of feeling. FL is definitely harder with retracted scapulae, I'm aware now I was doing it completely wrong. However, my static hold times are the same as stated above. Last SSC was bad or this new positions are more demanding?

The new positions will be more demanding for sure, but you are also now building the correct movement! I would go ahead and base your next SSC off of your current maxes, and follow along with the WODs. You should see pretty good progress from here on out. Be very aware of the shoulder, as long as everything is ok I suppose you can train planche, but be very attentive and definitely stay on point with the shoulder rehab. I will have part 2 up tomorrow, which will cover retraction. Part 3 will cover the next layer of stretching, and part 4 will cover the next layer of exercises.