No mention of Catabolic State ?????

So far, I haven't heard anyone on here nor coach sommer mention the importance of avoiding the Catabolic state. Being a former body builder, everyone's main concern was to fill themselves up with cottage cheese or casein protein before bed to prevent their hard earned muscles from eating itself. Which was one reason why I quit bodybuilding because I was not allowed to have an empty stomach.

So is this also a problem with gymnastics? Because just beginning my PL/FL training reminded me of this craze in the body building community. I know gymnasts don't really train to failure so they probably won't catabolize as much, but losing muscle is also losing strength right?

The same principles apply, it is still the same body that you are using. But look around the forum, many people are getting good results without being overly concerned.

Everything you learned in bodybuilding is stupid. Nothing will happen to you muscles if you don't eat immediately before bed.

Ouch, harsh!

Bodybuilding, while certainly not 100% accurate, absolutely has developed the best recovery nutrition in sports today, but there is a lot of old advice still floating around that is not accurate or helpful like eating raw eggs for breakfast, etc.

I just wrote a really, really good article in the nutrition forum concerning nutrition around the workouts, and you will find that this is the primary time you need to be worrying about.

Your body is not a muscle-hungry catabolic machine. Your metabolism does not grow shiny red horns the moment you drift off to sleep and start whacking your muscles with a digestive pick axe!

Your metabolism just wants energy substrates. You give it energy, and it's happy. Anything you eat before bed, as long as it's low glycemic and has a low insulin load, is going to stave off catabolism. Heavy cream, citrus fruits, sweet potato, *gasp* actual animal meat, etc... they all work.

Casein protein is one option, but if you go to bed right after you eat a chicken leg quarter and have a little bit of citrus fruit or sweet potato and cinnamon you are going to get the exact same effect. Regardless, this is not the most critical time. That is a myth that is perpetuated by supplement companies so that you buy their expensive products and help them pay for their fancy hats and whatnot.

The primary healing time is 4 hours from the time damage is done, meaning 4 hours from your first set. After that protein synthesis has slowed back down quite a bit and your body can no longer make the most efficient use of the food you eat.

If you are worried about the very small amount of muscular protein you may lose during sleep, just eat something that digests slowly. Meat and some low-GI carbs is a great idea. You can do your casein or milk protein mix if that calms your mind, but the truth is that neither is better than the other.

I usually go for nuts and meat.. I find milk keeps me from sleeping as good, maybe it's due to the calcium in milk competing for absorption with my ZMA, who knows, could be the insulin aswell.

I know, that was harsh and an over exaggeration. Not everything in bodybuilding is stupid. HOWEVER, bodybuilding is hobby ripe for neurosis and many of the communities habits/beliefs reflect this.

Bodybuilding is also well know for it's "broscience," which is a reliance on anecdote even in the face of contradictory peer-reviewed scientific evidence. The fact is, good training is science + anecdote where science has gaps. Over time, science fills in those gaps.

That is very true! There is a lot of nonsense out there.

Unless your goal is to gain muscle I am not sure why you would be stressing out over this. Maintaining is most certainly way easier than forcing your body to make changes. If your goal is to do a planche and front lever and you don't need to make significant changes to your bodyweight (too large, too skinny or too fat) then just concentrate on eating healthy not preventing catabolism.

To triangle: sure bodybuilding of today is indeed in a sad state but don't forget that at one point bodybuilders were simply gymnasts and strongmen that, through diet manipulation, kept a low percentage of bodyfat on a muscular physique. And a lot of good information we have today is thanks to those guys.

Even with gaining muscle there's not much of an advantage to the night time protein! I never noticed any extra gains, that's for sure. All I noticed was that I didn't wake up hungry 4 hours after I went to sleep.

Slizzardman, give me a link to your nutrition post because i have no time digging through the pages.

and I don't want to take whey protein ever again

It's the first 'stickied' article - top of the page in the Nutrition subforum.

And you could have asked Slizz politely instead of ordering him to 'give you the link because you don't have time digging through the pages'. It must be a pet peeve of mine but I always hate it when people seem to think the supply of information on this forum can be taken for granted while in fact, that's not the case. We should be thankful that so many members here take the time to share their knowledge and insights.

*steps down from his soapbox*

Bio good job!

Politeness, respect of the often unrewarded efforts of others is a fruit of true physical discipline, we need to be reminded of that more often!

Chingy come on, its stickied in nutrition. It's at the top of the stickies. Take two clicks to get there, instead of waiting for someone to supply you the link. I can understand not wanting to search through pages of search results only to not find anything but this is just pure laziness.

chingyvang said:

Slizzardman, give me a link to your nutrition post because i have no time digging through the pages.

and I don't want to take whey protein ever again

So don't take whey! Just because it is BETTER during the first hour or two after a workout doesn't mean it's NECESSARY! You'll still do great with whole foods.

Mr Brady said:

Bio good job!

Politeness, respect of the often unrewarded efforts of others is a fruit of true physical discipline, we need to be reminded of that more often!

I agree wholeheartedly. This forum is a source of so much good free information. You can even get a specific individualized response if you take the time to wait for a reply. Slizzardman especially puts alot of time into helping others, I honestly don't know where he finds the time but I(and I'm sure a lot of other people) are appreciative. Just recently he saved me hours of planning and possibly a lot of money if I screwed something up and had to rebuy materials when building my stahl bars, and he did it just to help me out. We've never even met and he's taking his time to help someone he doesn't know. I just hope I can help someone else out in the same way because this forum is such a great resource and community that I want to be able to give back. People should think of that and at least act with some common courtesy. If the most you have to do is read a few posts or use the search function its really not that bad.

If you click on "view active topics" the nutrition thread is right there on the first page for crying out loud.

sorry guys I didn't mean to make it sound like a command, I just for got the word "Can" and the question mark. But thank you all I will enjoy the sticky

great sticky slizzardman....

so i guess now i need to worry more about food within 4 hrs after training and forget about the bodybuilding craze of full stomach before bed. Great news for me

No worries! I'm glad you like it. You will find that this works very well. Everyone will find that they respond slightly differently to different food sources, so it's important to experiment around with what you like and find out what works the best for you.