functional hypertrophy - not a gymnast

I am not a gymnast, does anyone know(even if you don't care) how to my add some functional mass to my upper body through gymnastics exercise?

Is diet the major thing? If gymnasts ate a lot would they gain some mass?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I've seen some of ur training log and feel u're on the right track. Improving on things like muscle ups, planche progressions, front lever progressions and handstands should all add functional upper body strength and mass.

However if you just wanna gain mass quickly increasing you're calorie intake is probably the best way. However this may not always be functional mass gains. In my opinion the best way to increase functional muscle mass is: train hard, allow for adequete recovery, eat well but often ( i like the 6-8 small meals per day idea).

Cheers

I don't think I have a training log

I'm NOT looking to gain mass quickly, I was a bodybuilder 6 short months ago. However, I am VERY bottom heavy, as I am also a former Olympic Lifter and football player. I am just looking for sure, steady gains in mass that will help my gymnastics skills as I reverse my bodytype

whoops i got confused with the log :oops: , The sports that you have formerly competed in suggest you probably put on muscle well so i think it;s just a matter of mastering those excercises i already suggested. I suggest u switch most of ur leg training to pistols and various jumping excercises ( if u haven't already).

Demus said:

I suggest u switch most of ur leg training to pistols and various jumping excercises ( if u haven't already).

Um, why?

As his lower body is so developed already i would move away from the big lifts for a while to allow his upper body to catch up, with a bit more of a focus on balance and core strength. It's just my suggestion, i'm not suggesting deads, squats and olympic lifting aren't great (cuz they are) but if his focus is to increase upper body strength to achieve a better balance (which it is if i understand the question) then i would move to the other excercises for a while.

Like i said it is my opinion and a suggestion i'm not arguing that those are the only ways u should train ur legs.

Hi StevenL,

StevenL said:

I am not a gymnast, does anyone know(even if you don't care) how to my add some functional mass to my upper body through gymnastics exercise?

Is diet the major thing? If gymnasts ate a lot would they gain some mass?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Eating alone is not enough to gain mass (not in a good way, anyway). Any adaption your body makes will depend on the type of stimulus provided. Train for strength, get stronger. Train for size, get bigger. If you follow a program of gymnastic conditioning you will get stronger, it will definitely be functional ...and gradually you will get bigger, too.

If you're in a rush to get bigger ...maybe a little bodybuilding?

Really you need to ask yourself this question: What is your primary goal: functional strength or gaining mass?

Cheers,

George.

I'd say add some more reps to your workouts. Just remember the rep ranges:

- 1-5 pure strength (will get you wiry)

- 6-12 strength and hypertrophy (the strength would come from lower don the scale)

- 12+ endurance

Now please understand these are extremely simplified and would vary slightly person to person. You could do some pure strength workouts and some hypertrophy workouts, whatever, it's up to you. In my opinion a muscle must eventually get bigger to get stronger.

Ed

Demus, you're on the right track.

George, as I mentioned, I am NOT looking to add mass in a hurry, as I am coming off bodybuilding style training. I am not an advanced athlete or anything close to it, so I have no "primary goals". I just want to even out my upper and lower body(lower body is way bigger), get stronger, learn some cool skills, and have a great body to go with it. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear enough, but now you know :wink:

Thanks everyone for your input, keep training hard.

Hi StevenL,

It's not only advanced athletes that have primary goals. Let me clarify my thinking a little.

StevenL said:

...add some functional mass to my upper body through gymnastics exercise...

StevenL also said:

...I am just looking for sure, steady gains in mass that will help my gymnastics skills...

You stated that you want to steadily add mass, while at the same time improving functional strength. Therefore goals are:

> adding mass

> functional strength

I make an assumption here that you are talking about functional strength in terms of gymnastics, since you said want to improve your gymnastic skills? With gymnastics this pretty much means strength-to-weight ratio, and since adding mass increases weight, adding it without necessity is at a detriment to increasing your strength-to-weight ratio.

To sum up the above:

steady gains in mass -=vs=- increased strength-to-weight ratio

Since these two are in opposition to some degree, I merely suggested you clarify to yourself what your initial focus should be? Strength, or mass? I can see now that I was a little unclear about what I referred to as strength, but hopefully that is clearer now? Anyway ...whichever you focussed on first would be your primary goal, and the other your secondary goal. Nothing overly advanced about that, just simple prioritisation. You hit what you aim for, and if you're aiming at more than one thing, you'll likely end up somewhere in the middle having hit nothing.

Now don't get me wrong, while focussing on strength (esp. in a gymnastic scenario) you will notice some gains in mass, just as you would notice some gains in strength (but not necessarily in regard to bodyweight) if focussing on gaining mass. If you want to balance out lower and upper body more, and improve strength-to-weight to boot ...why not simply stop training your legs for a while and drop a little mass from them? Keep up some ROM work, and flexibility, but otherwise let 'em shrink!?

Anyway, I'm v.tired, and probably sound a little ranty (which is not my intention, just trying to help) so I'm off to bed. Apologies if I make no sense. The letters are starting to look blurry. Zzzzzz.

Regards,

George.

Demus said:

As his lower body is so developed already i would move away from the big lifts for a while to allow his upper body to catch up, with a bit more of a focus on balance and core strength. It's just my suggestion, i'm not suggesting deads, squats and olympic lifting aren't great (cuz they are) but if his focus is to increase upper body strength to achieve a better balance (which it is if i understand the question) then i would move to the other excercises for a while.

The hormonal benefits of heavy squats, deadlifts and olympic lifts just cannot be compared with those of pistols and their explosive variations. If he continues perform the big lower body lifts with a low volume, he will maintain his leg size and enjoy the resultant hormonal benefits that will aid his progress with his upper body. He might just happen to get stronger, too.

If he wants his lower body to shrink, that's another story, but I don't think he said that.

ed x said:

I'd say add some more reps to your workouts. Just remember the rep ranges:

- 1-5 pure strength (will get you wiry)

It is very possible to get big using low reps, as long as you make sure to perform a high volume. 3x3 will not get you big, but 10x3 will.

Hi Ari,

Ari said:

If he wants his lower body to shrink, that's another story, but I don't think he said that.

No, but I don't think he said anything to the contrary either... balance between upper and lower body was the general gist. Just doing a little thinking outside the box! However, I imagine your take is probably the correct one, since folk don't generally like the idea of backtracking.

I wouldn't want to be accused of putting words into anyone's mouth, so using a hypothetical someone as an example, it's still quite an interesting approach? If someone has massive legs and wants to balance out their look, it's going to take a lot more time to do it by simply adding more upper body mass. If the legs are getting a little smaller while the upper body gets bigger, the balance would improve a lot sooner (as would their strength-to-weight ratio).

If balance is relative to a specific bodypart, then there is an additional decision about whether that variable needs to be fixed.

Cheers,

George.

Haha, that's a very good point and I'm amazed I didn't even think of it. I guess I'm just used to people wanting to get as big as possible at all cost and I apologise to StevenL for automatically projecting that onto him.

I'm a bit hesitant to recommend stopping training his legs entirely, because gut instinct tells me one shouldn't simply neglect a region of the body in such a way. But that's just gut instinct and gut instinct tells us next to nothing about knowledge.

That's my two cents.

Not really on topic, but at Arie & George. I like to read the discussions between you two guys, they are really helpful. Sometimes it is nice to see two guys with lots of knowledge 'fighting' each other with what they know, really informative for others!

wow, yeah, these guys know their stuff, that's for sure

I thought about not training my legs at all so as to speed things up, but I have a squat rack in my basement and whenever I see it, it's too enticing.

I get a rush from squatting like no other exercise, and that probably explains why I squatted 405 for 8 reps at a bodyweight of 155 and have massively disproprtioned legs!

I noticed that gymnasts have incredible upper bodies, and though I don't have all the equipment I need to build gymnast quality biceps (rings?), I thought maybe I could use it to add some mass to my upper body and to learn some cool stuff (handstands and press handstand variations and such)

That being said, you two chaps seem very intelligent, so tell me, do you think I should try to maintain leg size and still work at the gymnastic exercises, in hopes that the extra resistance in my legs would make me stronger AND help add more mass? I'm not sure how one with heavy legs could progress in gymnastics style exercises (my guess it not too terribly far :wink: )

also, thank you for clarifying about the "primary goals" thing, george. I understand now that the two things I was trying to accomplish were detrimental to each other, though I'm sure mass gains from gymnastics would come MUCH more slowly than strength gains.

wow, this is long, sorry guys

I am currently dealing with the same difficulty. I use to weigh around 200 and find it very hard to drop weight. I just started a new diet and have changed my routine millions of times.

I currently do pistols once in a while on my leg training/kettlebell day but for the most part I am strictly focusing on my front lever and then I will be focused on my planche. Having worked L-sits and pistols into my 5x5 routine for a while, I discovered that it can be really taxing and doesn't leave my with much energy towards then end of my routine (when I would do my other static holds).

My previous method of training was something like this:

L-sit 30 seconds x2 on the floor

Pistols (weighted or unweighted) for 2-5

L-sit/towel pullups (sometimes weighted) 2-5 reps

HSPU (against wall)

Kettlebell swings or heavy barbell deadlifts

Sometimes I would substitute OH presses for HSPUs and O-lifts for pistols/kettlebell swings. I also had a different day that focused on all rings dynamic and static strength (for the upper body) with pistols thrown in.

I decided recently that is was time to get a front lever so I have been doing GTG 1 minute total front lever work. I also try to work in GTG handstands. 2 days a week I do grip work for 20-30 minutes.

I am not by any means at any sort of competition level in lifting, but after I got a double BW squat and almost 2.5xBW deadlift, I decided to focus more on my specific skills for the upper body and leave the hamstring and leg work to my kettlebell days.

So, as Coach recommends, I changed my routine to do 4 days a week. 2 days of gymnastics 2 days of kettlebells (which I focus a little more on legs those days). I still feel like I work my legs, but using a bell I don't feel tempted to overload them. This is just what I did (and am doing) but I am not sure if it would work for anyone else.

Does this help? Sorry if I am babbling like a brook and if i sound like Narcissus.

Cheers,

-J

StevenL said:

wow, yeah, these guys know their stuff, that's for sure

I thought about not training my legs at all so as to speed things up, but I have a squat rack in my basement and whenever I see it, it's too enticing.

I get a rush from squatting like no other exercise, and that probably explains why I squatted 405 for 8 reps at a bodyweight of 155 and have massively disproprtioned legs!

Dude, start oly-lifting or powerlifting or something. Dude.

StevenL said:

I noticed that gymnasts have incredible upper bodies, and though I don't have all the equipment I need to build gymnast quality biceps (rings?), I thought maybe I could use it to add some mass to my upper body and to learn some cool stuff (handstands and press handstand variations and such)

Though rings are pretty helpful, there is a ton of stuff you can do with a pull-up bar/at the local playground/hanging from a rafter under my verandah (what I do).

StevenL said:

That being said, you two chaps seem very intelligent, so tell me, do you think I should try to maintain leg size and still work at the gymnastic exercises, in hopes that the extra resistance in my legs would make me stronger AND help add more mass? I'm not sure how one with heavy legs could progress in gymnastics style exercises (my guess it not too terribly far :wink: )

Seeing as you love your squats, I would continue with the leg training. As you pointed out, the extra weight on your legs will simply lead to better gains through Gymnastic Strength Training™, though it will be harder to develop skills.

wait... 405x8 @bw=155?!?! what size are your legs?! that is 2.6x your BW! what style of squat is this? do you find your legs to be tight?

Not to turn this into a BB discussion but... how tall are you and what are the rest of your measurements (+bf%)?