Tuck planche and advanced frogstand on HANDS

Hi guys

Apologies if this question has come up before, i did try looking through first!

So far I can ONLY do the Advanced frogstand/ tuck planche on parallets :cry: If i try freestanding with fingers pointing forward I simply do not have the wrist flexibility so it seems to be able to hold the advanced frog. If i point my fingers out to the sides the wrists are fine but cannot balance for a second.

On parallets here are my static times for Advanced Frogstand = max = 20's so I work 6 sets of 10 seconds.

Tuck planche max = 7 seconds. (so i'm not training this just yet)

(I can do a 1 minute handstand max and 1 minute frogstand perfectly and my wrists are fine)

My questions are - how do I achieve the adv frogstand/tuck planche on my hands? will is simply come with time after I get stronger in these positions on the parallets? Do i need to condition my wrists first to be able to do this?

Wicked forum by the way, I read this more throughout the day than any other website out there! 8)

If you want to develop a planche on your hands and your wrist can't take it yet, look into more of the wrist prehab and strengthening exercises around the board. There is actually a good wrist series that will help with that. I used to have the same problem but with that series, I can now do a straddle planche with hands forward. Keep up the parallete work to get all the other muscles strong until your wrist come in line. Hope that helped.

First of all the PL with fingers forward takes an INSANE amount of wrist strength. However the carryover to other hand balancing skills (I.e anything done on your hands ) is well worth it.

No, No and No. The planche on the parrallets has no wrist strength carryover to the floor. However the opposite is true.

When you are doing the PL on parrallets are your hips as high as your head? If your hips are sinking lower then parallel with your head, then you are probably lacking core and shoulder girdle strength as well. If this is the case then I would recommend doing HLL variations, and Press HeS/HS. variations, in addition to your normal training.

About your wrist strength I would only practice the PL on the floor, not even bothering to do it on the parrallets "If you want to gain the wrist strength to do the PL on the floor. The best way to train this is to train the PL on the floor"

Also before you practice the PL every day do PL leans on your knees, as your are leaning forward have your body go in a circular motion above your hands, do this until your wrists get fully stretched. Repeat with your hands in every conceivable position, (I.e backwards, to the side, upside down, ect...) After you are done shake out your hands, as if your are shaking water off of them. This will help strengthen and stretch your wrists. (Does this make any sense?)

So in summary, Make sure your hips are level with your head at ALL times during the PL. Do not practice the PL on the parrallets as this is not the most efficient use of your time and will have no wrist strength carryover to floor. Before practicing PL use the above described stretch.

The Planche takes an INSANE amount of wrist strength, and will take some time to develop. However it is well worth it.

Thanks, I hope that helps

The Trying to be helpful newguy

P.S if I am wrong on anything I said, correct me Slizz or somebody!!!

Hey thanks for the reply Philip!

Are you talking about the wrist pushup series? I'm currently doing 2 sets of 10 reps each time i train (4times a week), but you don't bend the wrists in the same direction using those....is there another wrist exercise that i'm unaware of?

Did you find that it was a gradual thing that you had to intentionally set about practicing or just clicked at one point?

Congratulations on the straddle planche - that's truly awesome!!! It feels like i'm lightyears behind that.

Hey thanks for the response Newguy much appreciated

Newguy said:

When you are doing the PL on parrallets are your hips as high as your head?

My hips are just below shoulder level, but i'm working to raise the height continually.

Newguy said:

Also before you practice the PL every day do PL leans on your knees, as your are leaning forward have your body go in a circular motion above your hands, do this until your wrists get fully stretched. Repeat with your hands in every conceivable position, (I.e backwards, to the side, upside down, ect...) After you are done shake out your hands, as if your are shaking water off of them. This will help strengthen and stretch your wrists. (Does this make any sense?)

Yep makes sense. OK this is something i will incorporate into my routine - I know slizz has written quite a bit on warmups/planche leans etc.

Newguy said:

Do not practice the PL on the parrallets as this is not the most efficient use of your time and will have no wrist strength carryover to floor. Before practicing PL use the above described stretch

I thought the main point of the advanced frogstand was to condition the shoulder ligaments and elbows/bicep tendons...oh this is like 2 steps forward and eight back!! :x

Just out of curiosity, what stage are you at in the planche?

Cheers!

Actually its not that big of a step back as you may think, given the stats you gave me on HS times ect... You should be able to catch up to the times you had on parrallets but now on floor, in about a month or so

I have been practicing the PL now semi concentrated for about 4 months. Unfortunately I made the same mistake as you. So I could have been significantly farther if that had not tripped me up :x I can do up to 16 seconds Tuck PL on the floor

the point is you are only as strong as your weakest link.

bear in mind, you can exert more force on the parallettes than the floor as well.

DonGray said:

Hey thanks for the reply Philip!

Are you talking about the wrist pushup series? I'm currently doing 2 sets of 10 reps each time i train (4times a week), but you don't bend the wrists in the same direction using those....is there another wrist exercise that i'm unaware of?

Did you find that it was a gradual thing that you had to intentionally set about practicing or just clicked at one point?

Congratulations on the straddle planche - that's truly awesome!!! It feels like i'm lightyears behind that.

Thank you! Yes that is one movement in the series. The other was the dorsal wrist pushup or something like that. Look up dorsal in the joint prehab section and you should find it or on the list of coach replies. There is actually a whole video of gymnast doing the routine. However, they are doing it at much higher levels than they are ready for and should be doing the things like wrist pushups on their knees.

I didn't quite understand the second question. If you're asking if I intentionally went for stronger wrist then the answer is no. I just used it as a warmup before my workouts and gradually my wrist built up. I went from wrist pushups on my knees to doing them in a straddled pushup but it was never something I was trying to force. Just keep it in your warmup and go to the next level when yours feels easy. If you push it you'll hurt your wrist more. I had an injured one for a year because of that. Did that answer your question?

Right now I'm not training BtgB and wods, but back then, I was kinda in the same situation. In my warm ups with FSP I was doing 4x20 adv. frog on paralletes, but I couldn't hold it on the ground due to lack of wrist strength and flexibility. What I was doing, and it was really improving the wrists fast, was, everytime there's wrist pushups in the wods, I was doing a more intense wrist work, or even in other days I would throw in some wrist work. The wrist pushups, the first knuckle, and something I call wrist lean, or pseudo adv. frog. Put yourself in a adv. frog position, but with your feet elevated a bit, maybe in a box, and slowly transfer the weigth to your wrists, till you can, and hold for some time. When I was doing this after some weeks I found myself almost lifting my feet from the box. Take care with that to not blow your wrists.

You can train the balance with the fingers to the side or back too.

Also, My impression is that if you can hold the frog, or planche with the fingers forward, although it requires great wrist strenght, it becomes easier on the elbows and shoulder, because you are distributing more the strength. This means that doing them on paralletes you are training elbows and shoulder harder, and by the time your wrists are ready, it will become easier to hold for more time, or harder progressions, on the ground, I think.

I just posted a similar thread to this one, and seem to have gotten a slightly different answer.

I kind of like the "assisted" version of the Adv Frog mentioned - with feet on a box. I'm going to try that.

In terms of the planche leans and wrist work, how often should that be done? Once per day? 4 days a week?

how many times must I post the video with what has been released of the wrist series. I think I actually stickied but I'll check later.

c2w1PeSR8G4

Blairbob said:

how many times must I post the video with what has been released of the wrist series. I think I actually stickied but I'll check later.

c2w1PeSR8G4

I've seen this a bunch of times. What is missing from this is the concretes. Everyone likes to post this video, but I'd like to see info such as how often the planche leans should be done, how long they should be held for, and how many reps the wrist pushup series should cover. I know they're done in the WODs periodically, but I'd like to see a concrete rundown of the nitty-gritty here.

For two days now, I've been doing the planche leans every morning with 30s holds. Is that too much? Too little?

My understanding is that until "Liquid Steel™" is published (one of coach's upcoming publications), the only place to get a definitive answer to that question is a GB Seminar.

For now, you have to make do with what you can glean from reading up on the forums and whatever non-proprietary information others have to offer.

pogo69 said:

My understanding is that until "Liquid Steel™" is published (one of coach's upcoming publications), the only place to get a definitive answer to that question is a GB Seminar.

For now, you have to make do with what you can glean from reading up on the forums and whatever non-proprietary information others have to offer.

"Security through obscurity", eh?

Well, it's in the Graduate Studies, forum.

That video has a lot of the wrist series, done poorly.

I was doing quite well in the tuck planche two or three years ago but had to give them up because of injuries. I reached the point where I could hold one for about 30 seconds - it might have been 40 seconds but I can't find the entry in my training diary to confirm it. I started doing them again a few months ago but sometimes couldn't even hold one for a second. I decided my hands and wrists weren't flexible enough so I started doing static holds in the bottom position of the pseudo-planche press up. I would hold them for nine seconds several times a day, three days a week. I would lean as far forwards as I could and put as much of my weight as I could on my fingers and as little as possible on the heels of my hands. After about a month of that, I tried a tuck planche and did one easily for six seconds. And my hips were higher than they used to be when I did them. I could even extend my legs backwards for an inch or two before losing balance. Unfortunately, I must have overdone the static holds because I developed tenderness at the base of my right index finger and the finger became stiff. It would open and close with a snapping motion, rather than a smooth motion. I had this before in my thumb but that healed after rest. It is caused by damage to the tendon.

I have started tuck planching again but I put folded socks under my hands to give a bit of padding. When the tendon is fully healed I will start doing the static holds again - with padding under my hands to protect them from the hard floor. I'm 58 and WILL master the planche. So keep going and you'll do it.

Interesting, I generally do them at the gym on the sprung floor or some form of carpeted floor so I would think that would be padded enough. I may try on a panel mat tonight.

Right now, I can hold the adv frog but the angle is not something my wrists are ready yet. They are my weak link. I've worked up to the 60s frog stand besides doing the wrist series and a lot of other wrist/shoulder/elbow stuff every day but perhaps not enough wall HS.

I may try to see about the adv frog on PB for now while continuing the wrist rehab so I can eventually work the planche on floor. I won't be using it till I can do at least a straddle, which even with my hip flexibility is gonna take some time (and leaning out).

Veggie, I am sorry to hear about your injury!

One of the things that goes as we age is tendon and ligament elasticity. You have to be extra careful with prehab as you get older, so make sure to take the time to strengthen your hands and wrists for a while before trying any supports on a flat surface! A thin pad is probably a good idea for you. If you are careful about thinking ahead and making sure you strengthen all the supporting structures before you start strength work you can avoid nearly all of those injuries.

Good luck and good training to you, it will be really awesome to see an older guy get a decent planche going!

Guys

I have to say this information was very useful to me and when i originally posted this I couldn't do advanced frog on the floor, but after a few of weeks of gradually attempting it once per work out I managed to get it. It took a while to achieve the strength and master the balance. Now i'm doing x3 sets of 23 seconds and it feels comfortable. I would say it's funny how something that on the first attempt seems impossible, a little way down the line suddenly just clicks and becomes a reality.

Yup, these Aha! Moments are one of my favorite parts of all gymnastics!!!

Thanks for the advice, Slizzardman.