There was confusion in another thread about weightlifting belts.
We will start here:
jasonmstein said:Slizzard,
I'm not really interested in carrying forth a discussion on weightlifting belts on a gymnastic forum, but Mark Rippetoe, Louie Simmons/Westside, Jim Wendler & Dave Tate/Elite FTS, John Broz, the 70's Big guys, that Russian mutant and arguably the strongest human on the planet Konstantinov — ridiculously Strong Humans, most of whom who more importantly have trained other humans to become stronger — either use, advocate (or even sell) belts.
I want to make sure everyone sees this so I have replicated it here at the top.
Training secretsHe explains that intra-abdominal pressure is very important and a belt should be used sparingly. He only uses it lifting maximum weights. He doesn't feel a belt adds anything to his deadlift. He feels sumo lifters benefit more from a belt and that for conventional deadlifters it's only necessary for stability and a little assistance at the start of the lift.
He doesn't use straps in training and doesn't have any problems pulling weight off the floor. In the rack he's pulled 500kg (1100lbs) and held onto it for 8 seconds.
jasonmstein said:Additionally, your assertion that a belt forces the abs to relax is false, when in fact a correctly tightened belt allows the abs to contract harder, among other benefits like augmenting the Vasalva maneuver. Which, since you don't understand how they function, makes me wonder if you've ever in fact used a belt and are perhaps getting these suggestions from a CSCS manual.best,
jason
I was not clear in my original post, plus it was somewhat off topic. I said that you should never, EVER use a weight belt for normal training and that the only time you should consider it is when maxing.
Here, at last, is a proper forum for this discussion!
If you don't want to read past this line, know that I have successfully used replicated peer-reviewed studies, direct quotes from lifters in question, and biomecanical knowledge to back up my original statements. Belts should only be used for maxes. Not only from my mouth but also from the mouth of one of Jason's chief witnesses.
Only read on if you have time, interest, or you just like seeing logic and properly sourced information used well.
Here I address a few of Jason's claims, one of which is shown to be *almost* completely false, since he claims Konstantinov uses a belt regularly. Konstantinov says himself that he NEVER deadlifts with a belt and that belts should ONLY BE USED FOR MAX ATTEMPTS! GEEZ... Where have I heard that before... You can check the quotes at the end of this very long post, mostly long from the quotes, for both the link and the full text.
Jason maintains that belts are a good idea to use, though he has not said anything specific on WHEN and under what circumstances a belt should be used, which I would like to know his opinion on.
Jason's claim is that my assertation that belts should only be used with near-max or max attempts, meaning within 5% of your max( I do say 10% for some people at first, since they may take some time to build their body correctly to where they only "need" the belt on 95%+ of max) is not true and not what many top trainers claim is good, including one of the strongest men on the planet, Konstantinov. You can go see the quote near the end to see what Konstantinov himself says about belts. I'll give you a surprise sneak peak! It's almost exactly what I said. Max only. Not even at 95%! He's even stricter than me, though I personally say max only for my training as well, if I ever even use a belt again.
Jason has claimed that many accomplished trainers and one of the most famous powerlifters of our time, Konstantin Konstantinov, recommend and/or use belts. Konstantinov recommends that a belt never be used unless you are maxing. He never deadlifts with one, and he only uses the belt for maxes ONLY, presumably only in other lifts.
Eric Cressey has said a couple of smart things about belts. key: wear them to win, not to train. I include this not only because it is exactly what I say, but also because Erik is another well-respected coach.
Aha! I have found Rippetoe's opinion: Be prepared, it's pretty much again exactly what I say.
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Equipment#Belts":2uxq90gv]The only time I wear a belt is when I'm going for a heavy max of 5 or less and for the last warm-up set leading up to my max. 90% of the time I don't wear a belt for squats nor deadlifts. Rule of thumb: If it feels really heavy, wear a belt. If you are self aware enough to know that you back/abs are stong enough not to need a belt, don't wear a belt. It really comes down to preference. Beginners need not wear a belt for the greater part of their training.
That is down near the bottom of the page. 5 reps = 90%+ of max. Exactly what I recommend. I wonder if the last witness, Louie Simmons, has some secret thunderbolt to strike me down with?
NO!
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/newdeep/louie8.htm":2uxq90gv]My view on a lifting belt is that it is a training aid. Many times people over use their belts and become dependent on them aswell as not learning how to use their core. Over using a belt will also lead to the development of a weaker core.
Before anyone else quotes Louie simmons, keep this in mind. This is a direct quote from Tnation, the article is titled "Mad Monk of Powerlifting"
NM: What is your stance on the use of steroids?LS: The dangers are way overrated. It's corticoid steroids that they inject football players with every day that will kill you! Personally, I've done anabolic steroids straight for the last 28 years.
NM: Do you cycle?
LS: No, I stay on. I don't believe in periodization in training, either. I use mostly anabolics like Equipoise and Laurabolin until it's time for a competition, and then I do the harder androgens. I do not take Anadrol. I've never had any problems. I know guys who take much more than I do, to the point where you can call it abuse, and they don't seem to have any problems, either. There's no possible way I can train the way I do without taking anabolics, but the same techniques of training apply even if you're natural. I've also used the andro products and find that they give a greater boost in aggression than steroids! At least temporarily. I use them right before training.
He says the same techniques apply, and that's true, but the metabolism is so completely altered by steroids that you'd have to have a completely different schedule. SImmons' training techniques are solid, but keep in mind he is a long-time steroid user. All I can say is... sigh, at least he's HONEST about it!
Jason also claims they sell belts, but come on... Some hookers sell condoms but that don't mean they use them. Know what I mean? What people sell has absolutely nothing to do with how they train. They sell things to make money.
To be fair: as has been stated and will continue to be stated, the belts are good for maxing and possible near-max(95%+) efforts. Not required, but not a bad idea either.
I maintain that belts are a terrible idea for all sets that are not within 5-10% of your max squat, deadlift, clean, snatch, or any other exercise you choose to wear a belt during. There are only three circumstances in which I would even consider a belt:
1) Lifting within 5% of my max. For people who are just starting to use a belt, they should probably consider within 10% of their max as their belt-wearing range. I personally say that unless you're going for your previous max or better, you should not be touching a belt.
2) When volume is so tremendously high and specialized that the amount of work done by the lower back is simply too much to recover from, and so the belt is used more, but not all the time, as a means to offset some of this fatigue.This can happen in a Bulgarian/Russian program, during which the lifters are squatting 3-14 times a week AND doing many clean pulls, snatch pulls, cleans, snatches, etc. There is SO MUCH work done by the lower back that maximal strength gets impeded by fatigue and training as a whole can suffer. I don't think one person here is performing such a routine. John Broz's athletes and any other team who follows this routine will seriously be the only people in this circumstance.
3) A competition. Aside from being required in all classes that I am aware of, it's stupid to not protect your back when you know you are not the one selecting the final lifts. You HAVE to hit what that other guy hits, or you lose, regardless of your ability, so many times people try even when they KNOW they can't do it. I am sure that many times that belt is not just the difference between a failed lift and a successful lift, but also between injury and just another miss.That is definitely a situation where safety comes first. That situation shouldn't ever come up in training, since everything is modulated so carefully!
EVEN under those first two circumstances, consider this:
Weightlifting belts do little to improve performance, concluded researchers at the Albany Medical Center in Albany, N.Y., after comparing the progress of 50 weightlifters, half of whom wore weightlifting belts.All the men followed the same program, and their results were essentially the same. But there was an important difference: The men who did not use the weightlifting belt had better abdominal and back strength.
These results echo a previous study that found little to support the use of these belts.
While an individual may be able to lift about 20 percent more weight when they wear a back belt, this does not translate to 20 percent more protection for the spine.
Furthermore, other studies have found that the constant use of back belts leads to reliance as torso and back muscles begin to atrophy over time.
Only power lifters or those who lift extremely heavy weights appear to benefit from the use of weightlifting belts. But even these individuals would be better off doing their daily training without the aid of a belt.
Source: American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, Annual Meeting, New Orleans, La.
There is also this, straight off of PubMed:
BACKGROUND DATA: In weightlifting, a back belt has been reported to enhance intraabdominal pressure (IAP) and to reduce back muscle EMG and spinal compression forces.
Belts force your back to flex less. I still haven't found anything one way or the other concerning abs, but consider this: The belt does the job of the transversus abdominus, internal obliques, and intercostals, which are the primary compressors of the abdomen during lifting. The diaphram and air pressure in the lungs actually presses the internal organs against the belt. I have felt the difference and while abdominal pressure is greater my percieved effort in my abdomen is far less. I will see about getting a short study done at GA State in the physiology lab or at least get good EMG data on the abdominal musculature with and without a belt, both stiff leather and the velcro belts, just to hit the whole spectrum.
Anyhow, my point is that without the belt our pressure comes from internal obliques, intercostals and transversus abdominus pressing against the pressure exerted by the lung sacs and the diaphram. With the belt, the internal obliques and transversus abdominus do not have anywhere near as much work to do. In addition to this, the belt is not a stretchable object, unlike the muscles, so the diaphram can exert more pressure against the belt and therefore produce more Intra-Abdominal Pressure(IAP). This is why I would love for you to share the data that shows the increased EMG activity of the abdominals. I have already provided the EMG data that shows the lower back muscles are inhibited, just as I had claimed.
SO I looked up valsalva and while I didn't know the official name for it, I know exactly what you're talking about. The main thing the belt does for the abs is prevent hernias in people who have not strengthened their cores sufficiently. I have been able to find no evidence, nor have I ever heard of any, that indicates an increase in abdominal contraction. Where can I find that? I would love to read about it.
I understand far more than I apparently communicate. Anyone who has met me in person, and by this point there are quite a few on the board, can tell you that have no interest in anything but learning. I have accomplished far more already than the vast majority of humans my size ever will, and I have just made even more leaps forward. Namely a 5+ second full lay human flag. Not bad for 230 lbs and not even training for it. Abdominal strength like that, and like what you get with the body lever holds, and like what you get with 75+lb inverted situps for 10+ reps, is what you need to safely perform maximal lifts without a belt. My body is designed to do it and so is yours. It is not my fault if most people do not develop that ability.
I have yet to meet a man my size who has front squatted 505 to nearly parallel for 8 reps even on a smith machine. I did that on a rocking ship 40 feet from the bow on a 609 foot ship. I was 205 lbs. I have curled my bodyweight before on a straight barbell. I have done end-ROM bench presses with 725 lbs. You don't get to be able to do things like that without understanding a few things.
Most importantly, you need to click here: http://www.ironsport.dk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=608
for Konstantinov's background and training. I'll post the highlights here so you don't need to wander. I like wandering, so I've done it for you and everyone else here.
Training secretsHe explains that intra-abdominal pressure is very important and a belt should be used sparingly. He only uses it lifting maximum weights. He doesn't feel a belt adds anything to his deadlift. He feels sumo lifters benefit more from a belt and that for conventional deadlifters it's only necessary for stability and a little assistance at the start of the lift.
He doesn't use straps in training and doesn't have any problems pulling weight off the floor. In the rack he's pulled 500kg (1100lbs) and held onto it for 8 seconds.
Here's the rest in normal size:
BackgroundHe was born in 1978 in the small town of Liepaya in Latvia. Parents were normal people with no background in sports.
Started in sports at the age of six with gymnastics, and later spent a few years doing wrestling and judo. By 11 he was already quite strong and could do 42 chin-ups.
At 15 he began lifting weights at the gym, initially doing bodybuilding training, but always lifted with the intention of getting stronger. Was already 6ft tall, 160lbs, and deadlifting 475.
At 17 he started training as a powerlifter, getting most of his training and nutrition information from magazines.
Started competing in 1997 and went on to set over 100 Latvian records. He is the national champion in all 3 power lifts and has the biggest total.
In 2002 as a junior he lifted a total of 2210lbs, a world and European record at the time, and he also set a junior WR with a 860lb (360kg) deadlift.
Later that year he recorded 2295lb total in Helsinki (WPC) setting a world and European record in the bench press with 596lbs.
In 2003 in the world championships (GPC) in Austria he was the overall champion setting two world records in the deadlift: 884 followed by 897lbs.
In 2004 won the GPC "World cup" in Slovakia in the 275 class.
In 2005 he totaled 2317 in the IPF and went on to set a WR deadlifting 906 (411kg, no suit) in the 275 class, beating a record held since 1982 by 1kg.
In 2006 he focused exclusively on the deadlift and at the Latvian nationals (WPC-IPF) pulled 948 @ 275 to break his 2005 WR by 19kg (this time in a Metal DL suit) after tokens in the squat and bench press.
His main goal is to beat Andy Bolton's world record (which at the time of the interview was 971).
Training
He has recently given a lot more attention to rest and recovery which he believes is extremely important at his level so he trains more intuitively. He trains the deadlift 2x every 9-12 days, but it all depends on how he's feeling, so if he's feeling slightly fatigued he prefers to rest another day or two before deadlifting again.
His main assistance exercise is pulling off 3-4" blocks (8-10cm).
The overall volume of his deadlift training is very high, going up to 20 sets.
He splits his deadlift workouts in half with 20-30 minutes rest between them. Rest times on work sets are typically 3-5 minutes.
He trains without straps or a belt.
From a recent training session:
Deadlifts from the floor
260 x 5
350 x 5
440 x 3
530 x 1
620 x 1
705 x 1
795 x 1
860 x 4
Rest 30 minutes
Pulling off blocks
375 x 5
485 x 5
660 x 1
750 x 5
815 x 5
Hyperextensions on a 45° bench with 60kg (132lbs) for 2 sets of 20 reps
Reverse hyperextensions with 50-70kg (110-155lbs) for 2 sets of 15-20 reps
Biceps: 2 x 20
Presses: 6 x 15-25
Speed work:
5 x 5 Oly squats with knee wraps
8-10 single speed pulls from the floor with bands that add 130kg of tension to the lockout. He increments his speed work by 5kg (11lbs) each workout. His last speed pull session involved 240kg for 10 singles with 130kg of band tension.
Technique
He explains that while he pulls with a rounded back, it is only his upper back (from the chest up) that is rounded and it stays this way throughout the entire lift. It allows him to lift the maximum amount of weight for his proportions. He said he deadlifted with a straight back and more leg drive years ago but it would not allow him to lift more than 340kg (750).
The biggest influence on his deadlift training has been Ano Turtiainen of Finland, who has given him a lot of advice on his form.
Early on he took his deadlift from 340kg (750) to 390kg (860) in 7 months without increasing his body weight with his technique and training based on US methods, and reached 407kg (895) at a body weight of 118kg. This is where progress stalled and he had to look at other methods.
He now uses a combination of speed work and higher volume training with 75-90% of his max, assistance exercises, and "Westside" training methods. His current training methods have allowed him to take his deadlift to 430kg (948).
At his last competition he did not know how much he could lift but having since analyzed his performance he believes it is not his limit. He wants to go to the United States in 2007 to break the world record.
Training secrets
He explains that intra-abdominal pressure is very important and a belt should be used sparingly. He only uses it lifting maximum weights. He doesn't feel a belt adds anything to his deadlift. He feels sumo lifters benefit more from a belt and that for conventional deadlifters it's only necessary for stability and a little assistance at the start of the lift.
He doesn't use straps in training and doesn't have any problems pulling weight off the floor. In the rack he's pulled 500kg (1100lbs) and held onto it for 8 seconds.
The psychological side of lifting is of great importance to him. Before record attempts, he gets into a state of extreme mental excitation. To lift maximal weights he lifts quickly and aggressively. He puts fear out of his mind. There is no thinking of limits or barriers.
Recently he has excluded powerlifting squats from his training and only squats Olympic style which he feels is better for developing the legs and hip muscles. He also trains the posterior chain with other exercises.
, No Belt, 
ok that was cheesy :roll: