Chest pain from dip eccentrics

Hello,

I was doing A5 dip eccentrics and got pretty far to like 4 sets of 4x10s. However, I've recently been going easier out of caution because I've developed what you might call tendonitis I think. In the middle of my chest where I think the pecs insert I have some mild pain. I really only experience it if I bend over with straight arms and press my hands together.

My mobility on bench dips was excellent and I had no problem doing 5 sets of 10 reps. I believe what happened was that I went into parallel bar dips thinking I could handle the same range of motion. Basically, I think I was going down too far and this was tugging on that connective tissue. I was going down until my shoulders were pretty close to my hands.

What's the suggestion here? Should I go back to something easier like pushups for a couple of weeks? Then when I return to dips I simply try not going as low?

Thanks.

8 hours ago, Coleman Williams said:

Hello,

 

I was doing A5 dip eccentrics and got pretty far to like 4 sets of 4x10s. However, I've recently been going easier out of caution because I've developed what you might call tendonitis I think. In the middle of my chest where I think the pecs insert I have some mild pain. I really only experience it if I bend over with straight arms and press my hands together.

 

My mobility on bench dips was excellent and I had no problem doing 5 sets of 10 reps. I believe what happened was that I went into parallel bar dips thinking I could handle the same range of motion. Basically, I think I was going down too far and this was tugging on that connective tissue. I was going down until my shoulders were pretty close to my hands.

 

What's the suggestion here? Should I go back to something easier like pushups for a couple of weeks? Then when I return to dips I simply try not going as low?

 

Thanks.

HI Williams , usually this happens when the chest and shoulder are not enough conditioned.

now...the conditionig process passes through the previous pushing elements that should be felt easy before moving into the dip variations. unortunately this is your first post so i've never had the possibility to check for your mastery on normal puhsup or pseudo planche pushup etc.

Alessandro,

I understand. Usually I spend at least 2 months per progression before moving on (making sure I can do the 9th sets x reps step as well). In total, I've spent probably 6+ months going from A2 pushups through A4 Bench dips. However, I will step back to pushups. Once I feel comfortable enough again to do the 9th step for that, I will post a mastery check probably in a couple of weeks. The higher volume on pushups is tougher and I probably couldn't immediately do it like 5x10r for bench dips or the PPPU which is also 5x10r I think.

p.s. Everything else is progressing well (core, pulling,etc...). Also in case it helps I'm 5'11" and about 148lbs so it's not like I was pushing crazy weight on the dips.

12 hours ago, Coleman Williams said:

Alessandro,

 

I understand. Usually I spend at least 2 months per progression before moving on (making sure I can do the 9th sets x reps step as well). In total, I've spent probably 6+ months going from A2 pushups through A4 Bench dips. However, I will step back to pushups. Once I feel comfortable enough again to do the 9th step for that, I will post a mastery check probably in a couple of weeks. The higher volume on pushups is tougher and I probably couldn't immediately do it like 5x10r for bench dips or the PPPU which is also 5x10r I think.

 

p.s. Everything else is progressing well (core, pulling,etc...). Also in case it helps I'm 5'11" and about 148lbs so it's not like I was pushing crazy weight on the dips.

well i'm not saying necessary that you must STEP BACK but that you have mastered an element with an ALMOST-good form the risk is simply that the conditioning of muscles move from primary muscles to  sinergist. a simple example: if doing pushtup shoulder are not depressed then pec never plays a big role on them and in this way the sternum has less conditioning. in GST form is very important but up to now i've never had the possibility to check for yours.

Alessandro,

Alright this has been a bit. I had the flu so I had to take some time off. Anyway I've probably been doing A2 pushups for about a month and my chest feels back to 100%. The higher reps have been treating my chest well. I've attached a form/mastery check video below. It's the first set and last set followed by the mobility element. For the xiaopengs I usually use 5 or 8 lbs. I do get a bit of clicking in my shoulder but it seems harmless. For example I've had clicking in my wrists all my life but it's never caused pain so I feel it's the same with the shoulder in this case. Regardless you can check it out and let me know what you think.

https://youtu.be/rS-tX4X509k

8 hours ago, Coleman Williams said:

Alessandro,

 

Alright this has been a bit. I had the flu so I had to take some time off. Anyway I've probably been doing A2 pushups for about a month and my chest feels back to 100%. The higher reps have been treating my chest well. I've attached a form/mastery check video below. It's the first set and last set followed by the mobility element. For the xiaopengs I usually use 5 or 8 lbs. I do get a bit of clicking in my shoulder but it seems harmless. For example I've had clicking in my wrists all my life but it's never caused pain so I feel it's the same with the shoulder in this case. Regardless you can check it out and let me know what you think.

https://youtu.be/rS-tX4X509k

Hey william you can improve them by increasing the range of motion, the bottom part is the one that involves more the chest . if you do not include it...

the second point is to stop a bit at the top for 1 '' so that you can focus on recovering the range of motion.

Alessandro,

My nose was already touching the ground on the reps so to go lower I tried bringing my neck back a little. I've also tried pausing at the top for full protraction. Let me know what you think. If it looks good, how much longer should I stay on pushups? I'm eager to eventually get back to dip training.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLCaV4p4J9s

6 minutes ago, Coleman Williams said:

Alessandro,

 

My nose was already touching the ground on the reps so to go lower I tried bringing my neck back a little. I've also tried pausing at the top for full protraction. Let me know what you think. If it looks good, how much longer should I stay on pushups? I'm eager to eventually get back to dip training.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLCaV4p4J9s

i think that nobody has an answer for this question. this is exactly why is much more important the prevention than the recovery. to prove the recovery you ust begin again with the stressfull exercisebut nobility will tell you when you will be ready again.

Okay. My chest has felt good for a little bit now so I will move to A3 and show you my pseudo planche pushups. I plan to stay there for a couple weeks then I will show you A4. Again I think the issue on dips was going too low and doing some pec stretches after the set (like T and cactus stretch I think). Either way, I'm not too worried about. I can check the form with you when I get there. Even if the dips did give me issues again, it would have been a good experiment to help me understand my body. It's a learning experience.

Alright so here's 1 rep of 10s of the PB eccentric:

Also, earlier this week I was doing B7 Pullup eccentrics and I was at 4 sets of 5x10s. I was thinking that the mastery set (5 sets of 5x10s) is quite a lot of time under tension... Like the 5 sets of 5 reps for B8 Pullups is in my opinion much easier than 5 sets of 5x10s. What are your thoughts on this?

13 hours ago, Coleman Williams said:

Alright so here's 1 rep of 10s of the PB eccentric:

 

Also, earlier this week I was doing B7 Pullup eccentrics and I was at 4 sets of 5x10s. I was thinking that the mastery set (5 sets of 5x10s) is quite a lot of time under tension... Like the 5 sets of 5 reps for B8 Pullups is in my opinion much easier than 5 sets of 5x10s. What are your thoughts on this?

MOre time under tension --> more H+ production --> more stimulation of connective tissue growth factor --> more joint adaptation. 

Also dips is still general strength for the biggest part pf the people...

Yeah but the mastery set is kind of a LOT of tension. If we try to compare eccentrics to concentrics, you could suppose 3 to 4 seconds of eccentric is about equivalent to one concentric. That means the mastery set for B7 is equivalent to about 5 sets of 12 to 16 pullups which is considerably more than the mastery set for B8 which is 5 sets of 5 pullups. Mastering B8 would be easier for me than B7 which I feel is somewhat backward considering the movement is similar unlike when one goes from rings rows to hinge rows which ARE different movements.

8 hours ago, Coleman Williams said:

Yeah but the mastery set is kind of a LOT of tension. If we try to compare eccentrics to concentrics, you could suppose 3 to 4 seconds of eccentric is about equivalent to one concentric. That means the mastery set for B7 is equivalent to about 5 sets of 12 to 16 pullups which is considerably more than the mastery set for B8 which is 5 sets of 5 pullups. Mastering B8 would be easier for me than B7 which I feel is somewhat backward considering the movement is similar unlike when one goes from rings rows to hinge rows which ARE different movements.

This is primarily because on average you have more chances to find people whoa are able to perform bodyweigth dips rather than bodyweigth pullup.

my strongest female student hit 15 dips at the first attempt....but only 3 chinup after completing the previous "rope climbing" mastery exercises. this means that dips are still general vertical pressing while pullup reuires more strength. the more an element is general the more you can reach (easily) higer standard. basing on genetics there are some people who can reach impressive amount of strength also on everything that is no longer general. for example one of my strongest student does 8'' of one arm planche, 25'' of full planche on parallel bar..another one performs one arm pullup with 21 kg added. for them the normal one arm pullup or the normal full planche is now a general preparation.

you genetics is the factor that moves the strength element closer or far from your limit and the more they are closer to your limit the more they requires a pure strength approach like 1-5 reps range. the more they are far from the limit the more you can train them with general schema like 4x8-10.

the thing that i do not find quite accurate is the comparison between eccentric and concentric because the fact is that if you have a 3-4'' one arm pullup negative you have no chances to perform one arm pullup in the concentrich phase . i can guarantee you this at 100% since i I have brought more than 60 people to the one arm pullup.

from my 10 years experience on bodyweigth strength , considering the negative phase identical to the positive, a minimum of 15 to 20'' eccentric is necessary to perform the concentric.

Ah, so you are saying an eccentric of 15 to 20 seconds is equivalent to one concentric? Okay. My pulling strength is better than my pushing and pullups/L-pullups are fairly easy but I still found the later sets of the eccentrics to be more strenuous in general than if I just did reps and so I was curious about that. It just seemed like the eccentric mastery was harder which seemed backwards to me.

On 10/4/2022 at 12:23 PM, Coleman Williams said:

Ah, so you are saying an eccentric of 15 to 20 seconds is equivalent to one concentric? Okay. My pulling strength is better than my pushing and pullups/L-pullups are fairly easy but I still found the later sets of the eccentrics to be more strenuous in general than if I just did reps and so I was curious about that. It just seemed like the eccentric mastery was harder which seemed backwards to me.

This is a good equivalence but not a something that i would use in a systematich approach.