RC/PE2 Ground Row Plateau @ 4x12

First form check. Vid contains 4 sets with two different views as I can't film a perfect side on shot due to space.

I've been stuck on ground rows for around two months since this upload. I'm on step 7 which is 4 sets of 12.

I start incomplete reps in the third set around the tenth rep. I just can't seem to make any headway on this. So I'm looking for feedback/encouragement/advice.

RC/PE2 Form Check Video

Questions:

I'm not sure when to stop when a rep is incomplete.

• Do I keep going with shorter range reps or do I hold the incomplete rep at the top for as long as I can?
• I usually do an extra set to max after this. Maybe this inhibits progress too?
• What about my form is looking incorrect?
• How do I go about correcting it? What do you recommend I do?

I usually perform these in the morning after being awake for nearly 2 hours. It's on an empty belly but this demonstration I had a berry/banana smoothie. It didn't seem to have any effect. I meal prep and this is generally what I eat each day.

Nutrition:

Brekky: High fat protein nut porridge (no oats). 30g raw protein. 2 eggs. 50g greek yoghurt, walnuts, almond meal, coco flour, 2 brazil nuts.

Lunch: Salad with half avo, tuna, 1/2 serving of sunflower seeds and hald serving pumpkin seeds, starch is sweet potato, swede and kent pumpkin.

Dinner: varies from Mexican chilli dish, Thai green lentil curry or kangaroo/chicken/beef/lamb. Starch is usually white rice or potato mash.

Brenton Crowley said:

11 hours ago, Brenton Crowley said:

First form check. Vid contains 4 sets with two different views as I can't film a perfect side on shot due to space.

I've been stuck on ground rows for around two months since this upload. I'm on step 7 which is 4 sets of 12.

I start incomplete reps in the third set around the tenth rep. I just can't seem to make any headway on this. So I'm looking for feedback/encouragement/advice.

RC/PE2 Form Check Video

Questions:

I'm not sure when to stop when a rep is incomplete.

• Do I keep going with shorter range reps or do I hold the incomplete rep at the top for as long as I can?
• I usually do an extra set to max after this. Maybe this inhibits progress too?
• What about my form is looking incorrect?
• How do I go about correcting it? What do you recommend I do?

I usually perform these in the morning after being awake for nearly 2 hours. It's on an empty belly but this demonstration I had a berry/banana smoothie. It didn't seem to have any effect. I meal prep and this is generally what I eat each day.

Nutrition:

Brekky: High fat protein nut porridge (no oats). 30g raw protein. 2 eggs. 50g greek yoghurt, walnuts, almond meal, coco flour, 2 brazil nuts.

Lunch: Salad with half avo, tuna, 1/2 serving of sunflower seeds and hald serving pumpkin seeds, starch is sweet potato, swede and kent pumpkin.

Dinner: varies from Mexican chilli dish, Thai green lentil curry or kangaroo/chicken/beef/lamb. Starch is usually white rice or potato mash.

HI Brenton, i'm gonna answer you here..

• Do I keep going with shorter range reps or do I hold the incomplete rep at the top for as long as I can? Range of motion is important as speed, and of course, low speed at the beginning means lack of range of motion in the nearly seconds.
• I usually do an extra set to max after this. Maybe this inhibits progress too? yes, because you accumulate unnecessary fatigue.
• What about my form is looking incorrect? if you notice once you became fatigued (from the front view) you open your left arm to the side instead of holding closer to your body)
• How do I go about correcting it? What do you recommend I do? simply you know that you should feel the upper arm touch the upper body.

What to do now? i need more information. how many times a week are training this movement?

42 minutes ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

HI Brenton, i'm gonna answer you here..

• Do I keep going with shorter range reps or do I hold the incomplete rep at the top for as long as I can? Range of motion is important as speed, and of course, low speed at the beginning means lack of range of motion in the nearly seconds.
• I usually do an extra set to max after this. Maybe this inhibits progress too? yes, because you accumulate unnecessary fatigue.
• What about my form is looking incorrect? if you notice once you became fatigued (from the front view) you open your left arm to the side instead of holding closer to your body)
• How do I go about correcting it? What do you recommend I do? simply you know that you should feel the upper arm touch the upper body.

What to do now? i need more information. how many times a week are training this movement?

Hi Alessandro,

Thanks for getting back to me. I can see the movement in my left elbow. I will make a note to keep this close to my body. I can also see that my head begins to lead the movement as I fatigue. I'm always telling myself to keep the whole body tight but I guess when you tire it goes out the window a little. 

Quote

What to do now? i need more information. how many times a week are training this movement?

I perform this twice per week as part of the Upper Body program in the guided plan. 

Quote

Range of motion is important as speed, and of course, low speed at the beginning means lack of range of motion in the nearly seconds.

I just want to be sure I'm understanding you: Are you saying that I should be going through the motion quicker at the start so that I can reach the full range as it's harder to do that when I start slower?

Quote

yes, because you accumulate unnecessary fatigue.

So I shouldn't be going to failure? I should stop as soon as I am unable to complete a full rep?

23 hours ago, Brenton Crowley said:

Hi Alessandro,

Thanks for getting back to me. I can see the movement in my left elbow. I will make a note to keep this close to my body. I can also see that my head begins to lead the movement as I fatigue. I'm always telling myself to keep the whole body tight but I guess when you tire it goes out the window a little. 

I perform this twice per week as part of the Upper Body program in the guided plan. 

I just want to be sure I'm understanding you: Are you saying that I should be going through the motion quicker at the start so that I can reach the full range as it's harder to do that when I start slower?

So I shouldn't be going to failure? I should stop as soon as I am unable to complete a full rep?

Well, it is a bit more complex than that to explain, but failure rarely is necessary, maybe in bodybuilding, for sure not in GST.

now my suggestion is:

- if you cannot complete a step like 4x12 take a step back

- complete 5x10 and then 6x10;

- move over 3x11 and 2x10;

-then 5x11;

-then take a week where you hold the same reps as the previous week but you cut the sets in half.

-then try 4x12. 

reaching mastery is a process of trying and failing, more or less different from person to person.

On 1/21/2022 at 7:48 PM, Alessandro Mainente said:

Well, it is a bit more complex than that to explain, but failure rarely is necessary, maybe in bodybuilding, for sure not in GST.

now my suggestion is:

- if you cannot complete a step like 4x12 take a step back

- complete 5x10 and then 6x10;

- move over 3x11 and 2x10;

-then 5x11;

-then take a week where you hold the same reps as the previous week but you cut the sets in half.

-then try 4x12. 

reaching mastery is a process of trying and failing, more or less different from person to person.

 

Okay great, so the general idea is to take smaller increments if I plateau on some exercise. I guess that if I were completing a set to failure, then my muscles would like be too fatigued to progress the following progression.

I scaled back to 4*10 and was only unable to complete the tenth rep on the fourth set. So I'll keep incrementing it up from there based on your recommendations.

I'm wondering if there is a book I can read for the theory side of this so that I can get a better understanding. Do you have a recommendation?

11 hours ago, Brenton Crowley said:

Okay great, so the general idea is to take smaller increments if I plateau on some exercise. I guess that if I were completing a set to failure, then my muscles would like be too fatigued to progress the following progression.

I scaled back to 4*10 and was only unable to complete the tenth rep on the fourth set. So I'll keep incrementing it up from there based on your recommendations.

I'm wondering if there is a book I can read for the theory side of this so that I can get a better understanding. Do you have a recommendation?

I think that there is no book for that, you can understand things from the different fields...programming for example from the book of Carlo buzzichelli about periodization. 

for GST there is nothing so deep, you should basic understand how strength training works from other sports like powerlifting or weightlifting and then translate for GST. when you do that you will understand a lot of things...it requires me years to do that..

the principles are the same..it is how they are applied that changes.

An update on progress.

This week, I attempted the 4x12 sets after following the protocol for increased volume. But no luck. I guess I need to return to the high volume.

I am wondering if I can restart the whole progression from 3x3 sets but wear a weight vest or equivalent. Then when I encounter the later stages, I could remove the vest and return to bodyweight.

I'm just trying to come up with some other ideas as I don't really know intuitively how to handle these stalls.

18 hours ago, Brenton Crowley said:

An update on progress.

This week, I attempted the 4x12 sets after following the protocol for increased volume. But no luck. I guess I need to return to the high volume.

I am wondering if I can restart the whole progression from 3x3 sets but wear a weight vest or equivalent. Then when I encounter the later stages, I could remove the vest and return to bodyweight.

I'm just trying to come up with some other ideas as I don't really know intuitively how to handle these stalls.

Hy Brenton, have you tried 5x11? did you complete it? also, consider that it is not necessary to hit the 4x12 at the first attempt...

in the case of 12-12-10-7 i suggest completing only the first uncomplete set, this means the second one.

this mean adding one rep...12-12-11-7 all the rest stays the same.

then 12-12-12-7 then go for the last set and so on....one rep a week if necessary.

Yes I followed all the steps in the protocol you mentioned earlier. But the extra reps on those first sets really tire me. I guess it's just a mental battle. I feel quite heavy while performing this exercise. I will continue my patience and keep at it. Strength over time.

I like this idea of squeezing out one more rep at a time. It will give the mind a sharper focus and target each session. Thank you for this suggestion.

-- Update --

I came so close to completing the 4x12 yesterday. It was probably 3x12 + 1x11.5

Two things I have noticed:

1. I dropped back down to 5x9 while wearing a backpack that had a 5kg weight in it. I wore this on my chest and I made sure that I could complete these sets with the weight.

2. While doing the heavier weight with shorter sets, I noticed how much more engaged my core was. I felt myself driving my power through the core and that really helped keep the rest of the body's form. Maybe this is simple, but it's something I've never felt before.

Interestingly, I can feel the same need for core power while completing A5 single leg squat. If I don't activate my core, I have no chance of standing back on my feet after rolling. But once that core is engaged, standing up is near effortless.

Slowly and steadily, it's coming.

17 hours ago, Brenton Crowley said:

-- Update --

I came so close to completing the 4x12 yesterday. It was probably 3x12 + 1x11.5

Two things I have noticed:

1. I dropped back down to 5x9 while wearing a backpack that had a 5kg weight in it. I wore this on my chest and I made sure that I could complete these sets with the weight.

2. While doing the heavier weight with shorter sets, I noticed how much more engaged my core was. I felt myself driving my power through the core and that really helped keep the rest of the body's form. Maybe this is simple, but it's something I've never felt before.

Interestingly, I can feel the same need for core power while completing A5 single leg squat. If I don't activate my core, I have no chance of standing back on my feet after rolling. But once that core is engaged, standing up is near effortless.

Slowly and steadily, it's coming.

happy to hear about that progress.