Shoulder "Packed" vs. "Extended" (ie, vs. Kettlebells)

Only a few months getting going with kettlebells and the program here. I noticed there's a lot of talk with this program about EXTENDING the shoulders. With kettlebells they really seem to emphasize PACKING the shoulders which seems to be the very opposite.

I am assuming the two are pretty different activities and require different things - not a philosophical difference on how to treat the shoulder under load?

10 hours ago, Bill Herndon said:

Only a few months getting going with kettlebells and the program here. I noticed there's a lot of talk with this program about EXTENDING the shoulders. With kettlebells they really seem to emphasize PACKING the shoulders which seems to be the very opposite.

I am assuming the two are pretty different activities and require different things - not a philosophical difference on how to treat the shoulder under load?

HI Bill, before making confusion i need to know what are you meaning with "extending the shoulder". anatomically and functionally extending means from an overhead position move the arm down from the front and move is behind the hips.

Packing probably you mean depressing and retracting? well, this is a method for increasing the muscle's work because for example in all the overhead press you can engage more in the chest for example. BUT we are not trying to do one movement easier by increasing muscle engagement while trying to move an external object, in GST we must hold a specific posture that help to move the body easier while HOLDING the center of gravity over the point pressure on the equipment. 

I think you understand but to be sure: by "extending" I mean moving the pivot point of the shoulder/arm toward the top of the head (ie, bringing the shoulders towards the ears in a handstand position). By "packing" I mean moving that same pivot point towards the feet (sinking the upper arms downward and sliding the shoulder blades towards your waist).

It sounds like your response is that "packing" is used to move weights around and "extending" is the position best used to control my own center of gravity?

I'm sensitive to it since I'm trying to avoid chronic shoulder injuries from the past (rotator cuff, no surgeries). I've only been doing the GST for 2 1/2 months and am very hesitant about doing too much work on the shoulders yet (single arm shoulder, hand stands, etc.).

14 hours ago, Bill Herndon said:

I think you understand but to be sure: by "extending" I mean moving the pivot point of the shoulder/arm toward the top of the head (ie, bringing the shoulders towards the ears in a handstand position). By "packing" I mean moving that same pivot point towards the feet (sinking the upper arms downward and sliding the shoulder blades towards your waist).

It sounds like your response is that "packing" is used to move weights around and "extending" is the position best used to control my own center of gravity?

I'm sensitive to it since I'm trying to avoid chronic shoulder injuries from the past (rotator cuff, no surgeries). I've only been doing the GST for 2 1/2 months and am very hesitant about doing too much work on the shoulders yet (single arm shoulder, hand stands, etc.).

 

What you are referring to Extension is called flexion. the extension is the opposite movement. sometimes they are used without a difference but it is not correct.

well i can say 100% that shoulder is done to move freely overhead also with shoulder elevated close to the ears in the full flexion that is the exact position of the hanging, the position where you begin a pullup. A healthy shoulder permits this movement without a problem. having the shoulder blade always down also in the overhead position means that all the lower fiber of the trapezius and rhomboid get tight and in the long term you finish with shoulder disfunction. not a case people who do a lot of bench press and squat and deadlift have reduced overhead range of motion.

Also, consider that packing the shoulder in the overhead position means a reduction in shoulder flexion. once you are in the handstand you put all the weight on the cartilage that it is not the best option while elevating the shoulder shifts the work over the muscles.

Once a good foundation of strength and mobility is achieved shoulder won't show injury. i have trained for almost 8 years now people with arms in the overhead position. what t is common with them is restored mobility first and then progressive load on shoulders. you cannot expect a healthy shoulder if you pass from a "packed-shoulder" sports life to fully elevated shoulder activity in a short time.