HS/PE4 - formcheck, advice needed

Hi everybody, 

I started this progression this week and I need a bit of cunsultation about what would be the best strategy to practise it. 

I think I understand what I need to do. The problem is, that I still cannot lay supine with outstretched hand and legs and with my lower back flat on the ground. I've first realized that I should be able to do that when I've started to experience some lower back pain from flawed technique of straddle ups and tuck ups. I'm working on it since november - stretching hip flexors and strenghthening glutes, ppt drils. It's gotten much better (I don't experience any lower back pain while doing tuck ups), but for this drill it is not fully there. 

Lately I've been told by my friend who is a PT in making (still only a student) that my problem might not be tight hip flexor itself, but rather tight TFL and weak adductors. He made this conclusion after he instructed me to slightly straddle the legs and see if I could keep my back flat on the ground with this modification. And I could!!! And after that I realized that I really have to fight hard to keep my knees together. 

Here are two videos of my attempts of HS/PE4:

First - legs bent, second - legs straight. In both I straddle them in the end, so you can see what I was talking about. 

And my questions:

1. Could this TFL tightness and adductor weakness be on point? And if so what stretches and exercises would you recommend me to do? 

2. What is the best way to modify this exercise, so I could practise it and finally get it right? Version with bent legs or straight legs off the ground? Or some other perhaps? (The one with bent legs feels better to me) 

3. Is my flexion OK?

Thanks a lot, Petra

Hey Petra, well:

-if you lift the feet the exercise has 2 problems, one concerned with hips flexor that tends to arc the lower back plus the stretch of the pec major that leads to lower back arc because you lift the sternum

- my suggestion is reducing the weigth on the bar, the other angles must be held in the same position

Thanks @Alessandro Mainente.

So, hip flexor and pec major - I'm stretching those daily and will continue. 

I tried this exercise without weight, but it did not change what's happening with my lower body - knees bending or coming off the floor at exactly the same place. But I sure can practise without the weight for now. 

Alessandro, please, can you answer my other questions from my first post, so things are clearer to me....

Thanks in advance, Petra

Bump @Alessandro Mainente.

I'll train handstand later in the afternoon today, so if you please could answer my previous questions, so I'll know how to practice it... Thx

From my point of view, hips flexor can be the primary problem. Try the exercise by pushing the heels into the ground (by using glutes and not lumbar muscles) with a good PPT .

Thanks @Alessandro Mainente. I'll try your suggestion and let you know how it goes.

Today, I did PE exercise without weight as you suggested previously, and it was actually harder than with weight. With those 2 kg overhead I could stretch my legs further - weight served me as a counterbalance. 

So, so far, what looks like simple exercise, gives me more trouble than any other exercise I'm working on. 

Had anyone had similar troubles and mastered this progression? I would like to hear your experience. 

Thanks. 

I haven't tried the straddle you mention Petra, but I definitely struggle the same way you do otherwise. I've loosened up my hip flexors considerably since starting GST, but that didn't help this stretch. Then my PT suggested it might be weak lower abs (I was complaining about hollow rocks, but same back to the floor hold) and we've been working to strengthen those since. I'm not sure, if it's benefiting this PE4 yet, however I have noticed in other hollow hold type things, it's a little easier to keep the lower back pressed to the floor now.

I'm not a PT mind you, but here's what we did -- On your back, with knees bent and feet flat on the floor, engage the hollow position with lower back pressed into the floor. Now, without losing that back position, lift your feet up an inch or two. I couldn't! My lower back would come off the floor with the effort. I had to start with one foot at a time and really concentrate hard on holding that core tight!

I suspect these two things go together quite often in our PPT/hollow hold struggles -- tight hip flexors and weak lower abs -- because they're both issue born of a society that sits too much. So it certainly wouldn't hurt to work on both aspects.

Thanks @Jennifer Marie for your reply.

Well, strenghthening abs is what we do in most of the gst exercises, isnt it? :-).... So, it's work in progress... But I can do that drill you've written about just fine.... So I guess it is mostly still that damn stiff hip flexor :-).... I'll work on that and we'll see if thing start to get better. 

@Alessandro Mainente... Is there something more I can do except for stretching hip flexor daily with bent leg vertical lunge stretch from fss? Thanks

Rather than doing the vertical lunge, I prefer the same pose with extended knees because the main focus are the one-joint hip flexor like psoas and iliacus.

@Alessandro Mainente, just one more question, please....

I now know what is my problem that needs to be adressed  -> opening hip flexor. 

But, how should I actually practice this PE to make it effective? Because, obviously I cannot hold proper position even for 3x6s, but I can hold the position with couple of modifications for 5x30s. So what to do? 

Thanks

As suggested before have you tried to reduce the bar weight?

10 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

As suggested before have you tried to reduce the bar weight?

Yes @Alessandro Mainente, i did. Practised it just with a dowel. And as I mentioned above, with weight over my head (i'm using 2 kg), I feel like I can straighten my legs bit further than without weight. But it's not a big difference.

With or without weight, what's happening with my legs and lower back, it's almost the same.

What I don't know is what to do with my legs during the hold?

Should I keep them bent in my max ROM where I can still maintain lower back in contact with the floor? This way, I feel my glutes and adductors really working and approaching 30 second mark, the're fatiguing. 

Or should I keep them straight and lifted off the ground? This way I feel it more in my core. 

Or any other modification? 

Thanks

On 26.3.2018 at 9:45 AM, Adrian Theopold said:

Next time I would try the now nearly infamous Psaos realease

difference in terms of abdominal pressure I need in order to keep my back flat on the ground.

This is what I wrote in another thread some days ago, If you don't do it already I would really give it a try!

Thanks @Adrian Theopold, I've seen that and I've been doing that already. I don't always have time to do that right before handstand training, but I'm doing that almost everyday when I can. 

So far, I only see some small improvement right after the release. I thinks, it's too soon to see long-term results. 

Have you tried to specifically stretch the hip flexor before the exercise?

3 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

Have you tried to specifically stretch the hip flexor before the exercise?

Yeah @Alessandro Mainente, I have. 

I foam roll quads, cca 1 min each leg and then I do 3x30sec stretch for both legs... Inbetween headstand and forearmstands... And I do bent leg version, straight leg versiin and standing version.... 

Then it can be weak abs and transverse.

7 hours ago, Alessandro Mainente said:

Then it can be weak abs and transverse.

I'm working on strenghthening those, of course ... So I think, it's just a matter of patience. 

I'll work on it and report a progress (fingers crossed there will be one :-)) 

Have a nice weekend, Petra